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Thread: The Daily Groan (A thread to ease your pain) - The 3rd!

  1. #501
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    I didn't think the day would ever come where pronouns would matter, but I suppose transition angst makes ‘he’ a very poisonous reminder of that which, despite all effort, is a fault that will never be entirely corrected. It was always too late, but I have no choice but to keep working on it.

    I do have support from those who matter. And I have a very kind and loving partner at my side who cheers for me every step of the way. So just why does it sting so much when someone uses such a simple little word as ‘he’..?
    A negative number was raised to a power that is not an integer.

  2. #502
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    I can relate to this, R (in reverse, anyway).
    I have earnest support from my loved ones, and a lot of other people in my life are trying very hard too.

    It still sucks so bad to hear people using the wrong pronouns. Even in situations where I tell myself, "I'm never going to see this person again, who cares if they call me 'miss' or 'she'," it stings. I feel like I've taken a lot of big steps for people to stop seeing me as a woman, and whenever a stranger uses the wrong pronouns for me, it feels like all of those big steps have been for nothing.

    My least favorite is when a stranger starts off addressing me as "he" or "sir," and then immediately switches to "she" and "miss" when I speak. Like... you had it right the first time! Stick the landing!

    ...It makes me really impatient to start hormone therapy.

  3. #503
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    Maybe we shoulda traded bodies at birth!

    I actually used to be very androgynous in my early 20s but got hit hard by testosterone later on and was turned into a monster. I would occasionally be mistaken for a female in my younger days, and it always made me feel secretly giddy. But looking into a mirror now and seeing a man is hard. Not to mention seeing a human—but that's a whole other can of worms. I used to dissociate from it. Hard.

    I always tried to convince myself pronouns were a really minor thing that didn't matter and I could just fart my way through as a manly man until I could finally ‘blossom’ into a more proper feminine form, but the road has turned out to allow me much less hope than I had...well, hoped—and estrogen has eroded a lot of my ability to keep a straight face on the matters. (I definitely weep a lot more these days, both good and bad tears.) At the end of the day, the wrong pronouns are potent reminders of what's wrong, and how it's an uphill struggle to get to an acceptable point—passing—not just to myself, but to others as well.

    Of course it didn't help matters that it seemingly came out of nowhere, making it look like yet another ‘zany R scheme’ (my mother still doesn't fully grasp what it means; no surprise there, though), and it doesn't help that I have had a very bad start either, being...very heavily masculine; I've had to let go of a lot of hope, and settle for at least becoming a creepy hermaphrodite. Not a real, proper woman, but at least as far as I can get in that direction... And it sucks.

    Still...starting HRT at least granted me THAT measure of real hope, limited and insufficient as it may be, and it has made me feel as if I'm actually making progress, as well as more ‘in tune’ with myself. Maybe testosterone will be more miraculous for you than I suspect estrogen will ultimately be for me. And in any case, after a bunch of it, you'll be able to hide behind a beard! You can have my stubble if I find a way to hand it over.
    A negative number was raised to a power that is not an integer.

  4. #504
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    Frustratingly enough I struggle with pronouns more than I would like. I usually try to be careful of my diction in circumstances where I know it may be an issue to make sure I don't use gender pronouns as best I can. I can't imagine what this would be like if I were speaking Spanish or another language where gender is weaved into everything!

    I would like to think that I am fairly evolved and would honor anyone's wishes for identification, but I also have been influenced by society to modify how I speak based on my visual observations and not by who the person really is. This bugs me on many levels but I also fall victim to it, which is very frustrating. I would love to automatically know how to address someone without hurting their feelings but unfortunately that has proved impossible. Which actually also frustrates me because I arrogantly think I should somehow be more understanding than that?

    Yeah, so while I understand the frustration of Yourdeer and RSwan I also don't have a good solution for my own f'ups and how to make it better overall. Although something tells me if most people were as understanding as me when there is a screw up regarding (stupid) gender pronouns that it wouldn't be as frustrating .....


  5. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by R Swan View Post
    Maybe we shoulda traded bodies at birth!

    I actually used to be very androgynous in my early 20s but got hit hard by testosterone later on and was turned into a monster. I would occasionally be mistaken for a female in my younger days, and it always made me feel secretly giddy. But looking into a mirror now and seeing a man is hard. Not to mention seeing a human—but that's a whole other can of worms. I used to dissociate from it. Hard.

    I always tried to convince myself pronouns were a really minor thing that didn't matter and I could just fart my way through as a manly man until I could finally ‘blossom’ into a more proper feminine form, but the road has turned out to allow me much less hope than I had...well, hoped—and estrogen has eroded a lot of my ability to keep a straight face on the matters. (I definitely weep a lot more these days, both good and bad tears.) At the end of the day, the wrong pronouns are potent reminders of what's wrong, and how it's an uphill struggle to get to an acceptable point—passing—not just to myself, but to others as well.

    Of course it didn't help matters that it seemingly came out of nowhere, making it look like yet another ‘zany R scheme’ (my mother still doesn't fully grasp what it means; no surprise there, though), and it doesn't help that I have had a very bad start either, being...very heavily masculine; I've had to let go of a lot of hope, and settle for at least becoming a creepy hermaphrodite. Not a real, proper woman, but at least as far as I can get in that direction... And it sucks.

    Still...starting HRT at least granted me THAT measure of real hope, limited and insufficient as it may be, and it has made me feel as if I'm actually making progress, as well as more ‘in tune’ with myself. Maybe testosterone will be more miraculous for you than I suspect estrogen will ultimately be for me. And in any case, after a bunch of it, you'll be able to hide behind a beard! You can have my stubble if I find a way to hand it over.
    I can relate to big chunks of this.
    I was really androgynous for a while in my early 20s because I was super-skinny (for bad reasons, but nonetheless). When I started putting on a healthier amount of weight, all of a sudden it was like "bam, you're a WOMAN" and it was a struggle to handle that. I'm sure there's some old posts somewhere on here where I was trying to be all, "no it's cool!" about it, but as it turns out... it wasn't cool.
    Similarly, I started out the whole, "I'm not cisgender" journey with an attitude that pronouns are no big deal. And again... as it turns out, I'm a lot more sensitive to those than I let myself feel at first. Denial is a heck of a thing.
    The thing where it seemingly came out of nowhere, too...
    As far as HRT and where you start - you never know, really. I've seen a lot of folks (both FTM and MTF) put out really encouraging info about starting HRT a little older - seems to take a little longer to get to that "passing" place, but it's still amazing how much can change.
    The "wish we could just swap bodies/secondary sex characteristics" feeling is extremely real. Cheers!


    Quote Originally Posted by Amarok View Post
    Frustratingly enough I struggle with pronouns more than I would like. I usually try to be careful of my diction in circumstances where I know it may be an issue to make sure I don't use gender pronouns as best I can. I can't imagine what this would be like if I were speaking Spanish or another language where gender is weaved into everything!

    I would like to think that I am fairly evolved and would honor anyone's wishes for identification, but I also have been influenced by society to modify how I speak based on my visual observations and not by who the person really is. This bugs me on many levels but I also fall victim to it, which is very frustrating. I would love to automatically know how to address someone without hurting their feelings but unfortunately that has proved impossible. Which actually also frustrates me because I arrogantly think I should somehow be more understanding than that?

    Yeah, so while I understand the frustration of Yourdeer and RSwan I also don't have a good solution for my own f'ups and how to make it better overall. Although something tells me if most people were as understanding as me when there is a screw up regarding (stupid) gender pronouns that it wouldn't be as frustrating .....

    Hey, talking about languages where gender is really laced throughout the whole thing... I still screw up talking about myself when I'm speaking Polish. It's hard to undo 28 years of "these are the verb forms I use when referring to myself" when it's every single verb. And it's me. About myself. So if that makes you feel any better, yeah! Gendered language is a turd sometimes.
    Mostly I think the way to deal with messing up is to just correct yourself/apologize and move on without self-flagellating too hard. That makes me the most comfortable when people around me stumble but are clearly trying!

  6. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdeer View Post
    Hey, talking about languages where gender is really laced throughout the whole thing... I still screw up talking about myself when I'm speaking Polish. It's hard to undo 28 years of "these are the verb forms I use when referring to myself" when it's every single verb. And it's me. About myself. So if that makes you feel any better, yeah! Gendered language is a turd sometimes.
    Mostly I think the way to deal with messing up is to just correct yourself/apologize and move on without self-flagellating too hard. That makes me the most comfortable when people around me stumble but are clearly trying!
    ...amen to this. Biiiig feel here. In my case it's Russian. Habits are one thing but... It doesn't help that I only speak it with my mother who has been...really weird about it all. Even if she's getting better. Work in progress, son. I'll try harder to be a daughter, too XD
    A negative number was raised to a power that is not an integer.

  7. #507

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    I haven't read everything in depth but the only thing I have issues with concerning preferred pronouns is: unless someone tells me upfront what they like to be referred to I won't know what pronouns to use. I'm not a mind reader, so in cases of meeting a stranger and I happen to use the the wrong pronoun unintentionally and they get butthurt and go off on me about it, that's not my problem. Just tell me what you want to be called and I will do so, but don't expect people to just automatically know what you want to be called then get upset over it when someone uses the wrong pronouns the first time.... Now if someone continues to use the wrong pronouns after being informed I can certainly understand feeling upset about it, but first time strangers need to be told in a nice way "Hey, please refer to me as "this pronoun" and not the one you just called me"... etc...

    (I guess I just did a rant, lol)


    PS. Hey R Swan! I didn't know you had a partner now. Good for you! (shows how long I frequent WL as the last time I remember you being a single person. I need to get on here more often, lol xP).
    Last edited by Somnia; July 13th, 2018 at 11:20 PM.

  8. #508
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    (should probably add that this hasn't been anyone on this forum that made me post this, and not any single isolated incident otherwise, just a general thing I've noticed in particular about myself—my eroding resistance to wrong pronouns)

    Also yep, Somnia! I was sure I would be a spinster forever, but fate had other plans... But I won't go on at length—also because this is supposed to be a GROAN thread..! XD (I can definitely make you groan by gushing, though...)
    A negative number was raised to a power that is not an integer.

  9. #509

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    R Swan - Haha! groan by gushing... I love it! xD

    Yeah, what I wrote regarding pronouns was also just general stuff and not directed at anyone from here (WL). ;P

    It is interesting how things seem to work out in our lives (Fate, destiny, etc. if you believe in that sort of thing, lol)... Just take it day by day and live in the moment, do your own thang and things seem to have a funny way of lining things up for us that we are meant to experience. Hmmm, I need a groan now...

    I HATE CHICKPEAS! (lol)

  10. #510

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    My groan for the day: I'm falling in love with a place and now want to move there, but it's so far away from everywhere else I like, and none of my family wants to move there. But I'm so in love with it. Fuck!

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