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Coyote
May 24th, 2012, 10:21 PM
"I can't narrow down Werelist's focus to 'weres only' and still fulfill Coyote's original vision of being a greater community hub. The intent is to serve all of the animal identified community, as it exists now. Not just a narrowly focused part of the community, and not just the community as it existed ten years ago. We exist to serve animal identified people of the demographic that we actually have in the here and now. That definitely includes 'weres' but is not limited to 'weres'. "

I don't think anyone has suggested limiting participation to "weres only."

As for my "original vision," it was that Werelist should focus more on creating community connections than in being a community all to itself. Having said that, it was supposed to provide a safe and sane environment where the largest number of people could feel comfortable discussing as wide a range of topics as possible.

Please make no mistake though - it's original purpose was supposed to be to provide a haven, information clearing house, and communications hub _primarily_ for people who had certain shared experiences, while still welcoming everyone else. The intention was never for it to be closed to people who didn't fit one particular mold, but its original intent was to provide a space for people who considered themselves to be in some way partly a non-human animal, in mindset, spirit, outlook, or whatever you want to call it.

It was never important to me whether someone wanted to interpret this experience through the lense of science, or spirituality. Some people who had extremely similar experiences to me felt it was because they had past lives as that animal. Some thought that they were an animal spirit who was born into a human body for whatever reason. Some thought that it was because they had an unusual neurology either through genetics or early development, that made them _feel_ like they were an animal, or led them to interpret a human experience through the idea of being an animal. And a zillion other things.

A lot of the core people with whom I felt I had a shared experience, tended to have a few things in common: Altered mental states, where they'd no longer think or react as a regular person would expect to - which they interpreted or believed were a shift into the mindset of a nonhuman animal. Strong feelings of kinship, or identity as an animal or animals. A disconnect or difficulty understanding things that seemed "normal" behavior in other humans, from a young age. And yes, there are quite a few of us with shovel-shaped teeth, and that's a trait that may come from neanderthal genes (which they have found are yes, indeedy, still present in many modern humans).

And when we meet in person, there's a certain "vibe" that we tend to feel around one another. I don't think it's necessarily psychic or anything. Its that when we let our hair down around one another, and feel like we can relax and not go through all the motions of speaking "human" like it's a second language, we notice it. I don't know why that is.

Now, not _all_ the people I feel in my gut that sense of kinship with share all these traits, nor do they manifest always the same way. But there's definitely a point where it seems like "these kinds of folks are like one another," and "these others, delightful though they are, are something different."

Maybe we're fellow spirits. Maybe we're regular old humans with an unusual neurology. Maybe it's something mildly along the autistic spectrum. Who knows? I know there's something I can observe, which is a shared observation by others.

We can debate why we're different, or what it means, or where it came from all we like.

That doesn't mean there aren't shared experiences, that can be shared experiences regardless of our interpretation. It doesn't mean they're less valid.

We'll often have extremely powerful emotions attached to our personal experiences, as well as our ideas of community. That's why I always tried (and sometimes failed) to promote the idea of courtesy. Courtesy does not mean agreeing with the other person, or accepting their beliefs. It doesn't mean _validating_ everyone's beliefs. To begin with, that's their job, not yours.

It means tolerating different ideas, and being courteous and fair with other people, even if you think they're full of shit.

Repeatedly disagreeing with someone does not denote a lack of courtesy.

I will be honest - I haven't read every post on the Werelist where WVZ has been involved, but this thread was pointed out to me as an example of why he should be booted, and how difficult he's being.

I see someone speaking their mind, being barely snarky (and come on, nobody can avoid snark all the time - I certainly can't), and having people put words in their mouth to make it look like they're a bigoted, zealous speciesist of some kind.

As for making Werelist "like Coyote's original vision," let's be real here folks - I did things the way I did because I was trying to do the right thing, to help people, and to provide a service. But I'm just as much a fool as anyone else when I work at it. I certainly hope nobody's trying to do things a certain way because I said so - I'm hoping they do things the way they think is right _regardless_ of what I would do. I'm presuming that's the idea. I asked the people (plural) to take over after me not necessarily because they always agreed with me, but because I felt they were people willing to make tough decisions with a mind to doing right by others. That means I was comfortable with them doing things differently than I would.

But for what it's worth - if this is an example of why WVZ should be the bad guy? It's a pretty lousy example.

Believe it or not, during my 10+ year run as admin, I banned maybe 20 people. In each case, it was because they were a total crazy who claimed they could p-shift and had magic powers, they were completely rude and inflammatory, they were caustic and immature and cussed people out, or they went completely overboard with religious proselytization in a way that was disrespectful to everyone. About half the people that got banned actually got banned for not following the "purple dinosaur" rule, then cussing me out when I gently tried to guide them toward how they could follow it.

It looks to me like some folks don't like what WVZ says or holds as his opinion, and they're offended by the positions he holds. I see people mocking his position, stretching his words to make them sound worse, and accusing him of saying things I know he didn't actually say.

Now, as long as he's not being a deliberate jerk, deliberately trying to make a hostile environment, or breaking the rules, I'd say tough titties if you disagree. He probably disagrees with you. I disagree with _him_ on several points.

The goal of courtesy is not to never offend. It is to try not to be offensive. If someone else chooses to be offended, or is incapable of not being offended unless someone agrees with them, that's not the fault of the one they're offended _by_.

And sometimes, people are going to get grouchy, or emotional, or cantankerous. Sometimes they'll even get pissed off and light into someone, when if they'd stopped to calm down, they'd have behaved better.

And I'm really still amazed at this whole were versus therian terminology thing. Boy, was coming up with _that_ word obviously a mistake. Originally, when a bunch of us came up with it, it was so we'd have a word we could use that was general, proper, and without a lot of extra baggage _primarly for using with outsiders to the community or new members_. It was never intended to draw a line between "true weres" and "other kinds of folks that just think they're weres," or indicate whose experience was more valid.

I use labels and words to hang meaning on, just like I use a hat to cover my head. They're meant to be used to facilitate communication. We shouldn't be assigning meaning to experiences based on words - we should use the words as labels intended to communicate meaning. I fear we often try to use the map as the territory, instead of merely representing the territory.

One thing I can tell you: The reason I stopped being the admin of the werelist is that I did not have the personal resources and werewithal to do a good job. I'd been doing it for years, and eventually found myself with limited mental faculties, and a need to work a difficult job with half the brains I used to have. I couldn't support myself or my family and devote the resources werelist needed. And, frankly, I was a bit burnt out.

But the reason I haven't really come back to werelist as a participant is for pretty much the same reason most of the therians/weres/whatever I keep in contact with offline do not. It's because A: I've seen the same conversations ten thousand times, and B: I feel like there are far more people here who do _not_ have a similar experience to me, and _can't_ understand the experiences I have. In short, new folks, with whom I have little in common, are using this space now, and I just don't belong here or feel like I fit in, or like I'm comfortable.

I'm not sure that's either a bad thing, or a good thing. Maybe it just is. Maybe it's just gotten easy to walk away from a community when it no longer resembles home.

Maybe we _do_ need some resource external to here, that's intended for a specific subset of the community. Creating that without being isolationist or finicky, or making people feel like they have to pass some sort of test seems like it would be problematic, and I'm not sure it's worth it. Maybe it is. If we did create such a thing, I know that Werelist would probably act as it always has - if we make something good, that's not toxic and crazy, and that helps people, they'll direct people there that they think will fit in and get something out of it.

Regardless - this post for novelty purposes only. I'm not an admin here. I'm not the one in the trenches, making tough decisions, juggling different people's needs, and dealing with people's he-said-she-said nonsense. It's up to the people who _are_ doing all that to decide the best way to handle things. Their decision will make some people happy, and make other people all pissed off, and ultimately their reward unfortunately may not come in the form of appreciation by others, but by their own self knowledge that they did the best they could.

Good luck, y'all.

If anyone does have any ideas of how to do something constructive, let me know. I may or may not have time to devote technical skill, but I'll happily offer advice, time, and whatever help I do have to offer.

Some final notes:

Telling someone that they think they're different and distinct from whatever you are does _not_ mean they're saying they are better, or that what you are isn't valid. It just gets very frustrating when ten thousand people with little in common describe themselves using the word you've always used to describe yourself.

Trust me: I'm NOT like most of you. I don't think the way you think. I don't find the same things important. I don't _understand_ certain things that are second nature to you. My experiences and personal identity do not resemble most of you. Before I met other weres/therians/whatever the hell we are now, I thought for years that I was some kind of fluke or mutant and that _nobody was like me_.

It was very comforting when I discovered that I _wasn't_ completely alone. There were others with the same sorts of feelings, difference, or experiences or similar enough, that I could actually feel a sense of belonging, have a shared experience, with people who "got it" on a visceral level, even if our interpretations sometimes differed. There _are_ other people like me. Just most of you aren't. That doesn't mean I don't like you or you aren't special. It just means you aren't whatever it is that I am. If I thought making up some new word for "the kind of therian I am" would do any good, and wouldn't devolve into inane rants about people being discriminatory, or trying to be better than anyone else, I'd suggest that.

By the way - one of the things that makes me suspect that someone _isn't_ whatever I am, is when they get mad at me for telling them that there's a word for people like me, and it's not the same as the word for people like them. You see - I really don't give two shits what word we pick, as long as we agree on whatever and whoever it means, and people _don't_ get their panties all in a twist about it. You can call me Shirley - I really don't care.

Ashen
May 25th, 2012, 03:08 AM
3. A leadership assistance team who can work with WVZ and help make it happen.


I can fully commit to this and would love to help WVZ with this, I believe Soma would as well, we had a very nice long talk about some of all this around the campfire at this years SE Howl, I think the new forum for Weres or if nothing else for those that have been around for years and need a new home is perfect.

Savage
May 25th, 2012, 03:14 AM
I can fully commit to this and would love to help WVZ with this, I believe Soma would as well, we had a very nice long talk about some of all this around the campfire at this years SE Howl, I think the new forum for Weres or if nothing else for those that have been around for years and need a new home is perfect.

Dev thread over here: http://www.werelist.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31383

And, don't feel it has to be anything like what I'm envisioning - the whole point is that we help get the resources together to raise the barn, but what you do with the barn is not going to be in our hands after it is built.

Also note that while I am happy to help with the basic building as much as I can, I will be very carefully and respectfully **staying the fuck out** of anything to do with its administration and running, specifically because it would be counterproductive for other sites intended to serve different parts of the community to have the same culture or administration style as Werelist.

And, I may not be around much for a week or so due to a family emergency. But I trust folks to come up with some great things that I'll be doing my best to keep up with from where I'm at.

Somnia
May 25th, 2012, 03:39 AM
There are obviously serious personality conflicts between me and a considerable number of people here so that I can't open my yap without half a dozen members mobbing me. It gets really old. And I really think Savage should have banned me. I most certainly don't belong here.

I personally don't think that you're a bad person. I think the problem with what others have had in the past is not necessarily about the subject matter you post about, but rather how things are worded. Of course I'm not speaking for any other person, this is just from my own observation of some of the posts/threads, etc that I've seen. I do think you have a lot to give to the community so it would be shame to see you leave. I think it's pretty clear now that you're not going to get banned so I hope you continue to post things in the Howls for real life meet ups and other things.

WolfVanZandt
May 25th, 2012, 04:45 PM
But please, PLEASE, try to be careful when you post on discussion threads here, if you choose to do so at all in the future. Which I'm going to suggest you not, since you will be busy with your own nice shiny new forum that we will help build for you.

Keep in mind that Ashen wanted this deal, so she's the primary, not me.....which is the right way to go since I'm so doggone technologically backward. I'll be available for whatever you need from me.


I think it's pretty clear now that you're not going to get banned so I hope you continue to post things in the Howls for real life meet ups and other things.

I intend to continue to support any real life Were activity that I can. My age is beginning to cut down on what travel I choose to do but I still do as much as I can. And 7 years from now, I will need someone to really, really, really want to take over the SEHowl because my last day at work (before I retire) will possibly be my last day in the Southeast. But even if I stay in the Southeast (I have options) - heck folks, I'm getting old and I'm going to want to shift to a more sedate lifestyle sometime in the future.

Savage
May 25th, 2012, 05:07 PM
Keep in mind that Ashen wanted this deal, so she's the primary, not me.....which is the right way to go since I'm so doggone technologically backward. I'll be available for whatever you need from me.

But you can help guide the site's content and philosophy to be congruent with the vision you have stated about a welcoming home for the segment of the Were community that can not get its needs met here, yes?




I intend to continue to support any real life Were activity that I can. My age is beginning to cut down on what travel I choose to do but I still do as much as I can. And 7 years from now, I will need someone to really, really, really want to take over the SEHowl because my last day at work (before I retire) will possibly be my last day in the Southeast. But even if I stay in the Southeast (I have options) - heck folks, I'm getting old and I'm going to want to shift to a more sedate lifestyle sometime in the future.

That would be one of the goals of creating and maintaining this site - to keep the discussions and friendships going that started in real life, and to have a transparently accessible management interface so more people can learn how to run the structures that work when us old farts can't do it any more.

S'what I'm doing here. The cold hard fact is that we're all going have to retire, cope with diminished capacity, or take the long dirt nap sooner or later. I hope it's later for all of us, but life happens and you never can tell. Continuity of support in the community should never be too dependent on any one person for that reason.

But it can end up that way if you don't actively recruit and show people how it's done so they can pick up the torch behind you. The Internet is a goddamn good repository for this, and well worth taking advantage of for your purposes.

WolfVanZandt
May 26th, 2012, 04:04 AM
But you can help guide the site's content and philosophy to be congruent with the vision you have stated about a welcoming home for the segment of the Were community that can not get its needs met here, yes?

I can be an active worker on par with everyone else on the project. For me to be "making the site in my own image" would be a mistake. The Werelist was originally for Weres, by Weres, to Weres. We don't need a site according to my vision (My vision is simply for the establishment of the Were community as a real world community valued by the world for its own sake.)

A major distinctive of the Weres I associate with is that they are chaotic, disorganised but with a common directiveness. Once they focus on an issue, they just get together and get it done. It's synchrony and if we're working according to my vision then it could never be my vision. As paradoxical as that may sound, as soon as it starts being my vision, it stops being the Were community's vision and it's no longer my vision.

And the site needs to be an extension of the offline community (not a community in itself) - a cyberimage of the Weres that live and interact in real life as a (pardon the hyperboly) Were Nation, so that when Isolated Weres come onto the site, they become part of the offline reality.

That's not my vision but the communal vision of the Weres that have been expressing a desire for such a site.


Continuity of support in the community should never be too dependent on any one person for that reason.

And that's, of course, why the focus must be squarely on the community. If it's the community that's the prime objective - to build a strong and established society of Weres in the world - then long after the individual has died, the community will continue.

Ashen
May 26th, 2012, 04:08 AM
And the site needs to be an extension of the offline community (not a community in itself) - a cyberimage of the Weres that live and interact in real life as a (pardon the hyperboly) Were Nation, so that when Isolated Weres come onto the site, they become part of the offline reality.

That's not my vision but the communal vision of the Weres that have been expressing a desire for such a site.

And that's, of course, why the focus must be squarely on the community. If it's the community that's the prime objective - to build a strong and established society of Weres in the world - then long after the individual has died, the community will continue.

Exactly... my desktop is littered with notes I'm collecting.. I feel good about this.

Savage
May 26th, 2012, 11:57 AM
That's not my vision but the communal vision of the Weres that have been expressing a desire for such a site.

All that matters is that you can clearly see and identify that need in a large enough subset of the community, and that you are willing to work to make it happen.

Ego and making it about individual people and their personalities is probably the single most counterproductive force we could bring on board. We can make the conscious choice not to put any of that stuff on our table. We can choose to 'give away' all of those petty personal things as our willing gift to the community, and transform that kind of negative energy into something a lot more positive that has a chance to be a lasting force for good.

No egos, no 'me, me' stuff. That crap just gets in the way. The idea is to clearly identify actual unmet needs in the community, then put your shoulder to the wheel where it will do the most good and where you can exert the most leverage.

Where can you be the best leverage?

WolfVanZandt
May 26th, 2012, 01:39 PM
Aye, and I think we're one huge step closer to Heart's Desire.

Ashen
May 31st, 2012, 12:38 PM
http://www.werelist.net/forums/group.php?groupid=43

Social group link until new site is made.

cheetah
May 31st, 2012, 12:44 PM
What if, in our opinion, mental and physical spheres can overlap to some extent?

Ashen
May 31st, 2012, 12:55 PM
What if, in our opinion, mental and physical spheres can overlap to some extent?

I think that's only natural.. there's both imo... and there needs to be a balance, rather than focusing too much on just the mental or just the physical or even just the spiritual side of things.

Savage
May 31st, 2012, 01:04 PM
Good job setting that up. One comment, though. This isn't a rule, it's a suggestion to save you a lot of headache.

A site that makes the public focus of their discussion the idea that being were/therian is a physical thing, but doesn't clarify further than that in their initial description, is likely to attract a type of discussion and a caliber of member that will cause issues for your site. I don't think you'll like the result, or that it will be what I know you are aiming for, unless you keep it clear right up front that you aren't soliciting for p-shifters.

Let me know if you need any assistance with the admin permissions or whatnot.

Ashen
May 31st, 2012, 01:16 PM
Will do and I plan to tweek the discription later (still today, just later), just wanted to quickly put it up and get it going on some level. :)

Savage
May 31st, 2012, 01:33 PM
Will do and I plan to tweek the discription later (still today, just later), just wanted to quickly put it up and get it going on some level. :)

Laying the groundwork is important if you want to build something solid. My recommendation for the first step of site building would be to put some quality content there and some discussion "seeds" that people who join can immediately grab onto.

You are welcome to grab anything of mine I've ever written, but what would probably be more helpful is to tap Coyote and WVZ for content - old articles, posts, etc. Get permission and put'em up there.

Second step is the publicity drive. Let's brainstorm ways to get the message out to the community and who can post about it where. BUT, and this is a pretty big but, you will be smart not to do any publicizing until you have content. Otherwise people click over there, see that it's empty and boring, and never bother going back. You don't want to launch even the initial beta to the wide-open public before it has enough content for them to actually participate rather than lay the expectation on them of creating all the content.

It's not enough to give people a simple sandbox in a vacant lot where they are allowed to build castles and expect to keep a high percentage of them. You need to build some nice example castles first, and half-build other castles so people can see the structure and add their own bits, and you have to have a nice array of buckets and shovels and toys and tools. The running water should be on, and some decent lighting, and comfy lounge chairs, and make sure to water the grass. Now you've got a well appointed sand castle building box that people will stick around to enjoy.

So, next step, content! Grab it and stick it up there, and start the seeds of discussions you know people wanted to have but felt they couldn't on the wider site.

Helpstaff, hands off in there - we're just going to liase with the group admins, and if anything they do there (which I doubt) generates real issues for the site itself, they can be trusted to deal with it. This is a policy that, if it works here, can become more generally applicable to the social groups area.

Ashen and Lenowill, you've been around long enough to know what's going to cause real life offline problems for the community, the server or the site, and we know you can deal with them.

We need to run a Werelist helpstaff training for our new docent at some point; this is just a basic therian site management seminar by folks who have been doing it for over a decade, covering the basics of "servant leadership" and the ideal of selfless community service. If any of you from the new site would find anything useful there, you can get an invite.

herringbone
May 31st, 2012, 04:01 PM
Just as a note - if you (Ashen) want written content concerning my own 'werehouse' I might be able to write it with my house mates permissions. I could give a basic run down of why we live together, maybe some quotes, and pros and cons. I've lived with quite a few people now (therian and non) so there's that. It might help people realize that it could be easier than they think. For instance, I live with people that I met primarily at school who also happen to be therians. My school isn't exactly very big (this years grad class about 400) and everyone is around my age (22). I also might be able to supply some graphics/artwork for the site. I used to work for some sim games making illustration graphics. Good luck and bother me if need be!

Savage
May 31st, 2012, 05:31 PM
Just as a note - if you (Ashen) want written content concerning my own 'werehouse' I might be able to write it with my house mates permissions. I could give a basic run down of why we live together, maybe some quotes, and pros and cons. I've lived with quite a few people now (therian and non) so there's that. It might help people realize that it could be easier than they think. For instance, I live with people that I met primarily at school who also happen to be therians. My school isn't exactly very big (this years grad class about 400) and everyone is around my age (22). I also might be able to supply some graphics/artwork for the site. I used to work for some sim games making illustration graphics. Good luck and bother me if need be!

Those are totally awesome offers.

All of us have the ability to give to our community and to help build something that can make a real difference for others like us, sometimes immediately and sometimes for years down the road.

You can leave a legacy that matters. You might even make the difference someday between someone doing harm to themselves because they feel that they are alone and crazy, and someone deciding to live and to grow in the knowledge that there are others like them who care and who will support them in coping.

If you have reached a place of success in your life where you are able to live freely with other therians, showing that this is an achievable goal and describing how you got there can really give a lot of hope to people who aren't there yet. Hope is a great gift, and having it can make a real difference in someone's life.

Human resources are the most valuable asset there is in site and community building, and they are worth recognizing and nurturing.

WolfVanZandt
May 31st, 2012, 06:13 PM
Good advice, Savage. I'm hoping that a lot of content will be about community building so, experience with that - werehouses, urban groups, state "associations", etc. - is probably information they're going to want.

Before checking with me for content, you might want to see what's on my website - it's all okay to use. Leno is familiar with it, I believe.

herringbone
May 31st, 2012, 10:43 PM
Those are totally awesome offers.

If you have reached a place of success in your life where you are able to live freely with other therians, showing that this is an achievable goal and describing how you got there can really give a lot of hope to people who aren't there yet. Hope is a great gift, and having it can make a real difference in someone's life.


Well, that was inspiring. I made this post here (http://www.werelist.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31426) to at least get that information out. I don't know what else to add at the moment, but, hopefully if I can answer anyone's questions it will do some good. It's hard to talk specifics until you are asked.

Ashen
June 1st, 2012, 12:54 AM
Good advice, Savage. I'm hoping that a lot of content will be about community building so, experience with that - werehouses, urban groups, state "associations", etc. - is probably information they're going to want.

Before checking with me for content, you might want to see what's on my website - it's all okay to use. Leno is familiar with it, I believe.

Thanks Wolf, I also want to have a section of things like the Neanderthal theory, so I will need content from The Timeline as well as probably more coversations with you and others when the time comes. Will provide credit/refrences for all content to owners and links to the original sites when possible. But I'm hoping the primary focus will be community.. and non-virtual connections, helping others establish these connection if they wish, or find support when needed.

After tomorrow I'll have time to put up old essays that apply and some new discussions involving what the site will be, get discussions started. I do need the help staff, now that Leno is a member of the group to be to be made co-admin

Savage
June 1st, 2012, 01:31 AM
I do need the help staff, now that Leno is a member of the group to be to be made co-admin

Let me see what I can do there. I think that permission can be set, but I'm not absolutely sure. I will try.

EDIT: As far as I can tell, I can not set that permission. Social groups on vB appear to be designed to be moderated by a single individual.

One thing I can do is for you to set up a "this is the moderator of this group" profile on this site, separate from your own actual accounts, and anyone you wish to be able to moderate the group you can share the password with. We normally don't allow multiple accounts per person on Werelist, but I'll okay it for this usage. So if you actually need to perform any moderation tasks, you can log into that account. I can transfer the group to that account name once you create it and let me know.

Lenowill
June 1st, 2012, 01:50 AM
Also, now that I'm in the group ... for some reason, I can't seem to create any more group discussion topics beyond the first that I've created. Am I just missing the option in the interface somehow or is it something permissions-related?

Savage
June 1st, 2012, 01:54 AM
Also, now that I'm in the group ... for some reason, I can't seem to create any more group discussion topics beyond the first that I've created. Am I just missing the option in the interface somehow or is it something permissions-related?

Let me go look at that group's permissions and fix it how you want it. I assume it should be "every member can post discussion"?

Okay:

Group Options:
Enable Albums: Yes
Enable Messages: Yes
Messages must be approved by the owner: This was set yes, I set it back to no
Users must join to view the content: Yes
Only owner can create new discussions: This was set to yes, I set it back to no

If I assumed wrong, the group owner (currently Ashen) can set it however she likes.

I can also fix the spelling errors in the group description if desired. Up to you.

WolfVanZandt
June 1st, 2012, 01:54 AM
I'm working (slowly) on a history section of the Therian Timeline and I'm currently working on a more in depth discussion of Neanderthal. Perhaps I can get my butt in gear and finish it.....

Lenowill
June 1st, 2012, 01:59 AM
Thanks, Savage. I'll get with Ashen about it tomorrow and see if we want to create a joint Admin account thing.

WolfVanZandt
June 10th, 2012, 07:43 PM
I'm working (slowly) on a history section of the Therian Timeline and I'm currently working on a more in depth discussion of Neanderthal. Perhaps I can get my butt in gear and finish it.....

Grph......maybe not. I picked up a trojan last Friday and had to wipe my computer. I lost a lot of data and I lost anything in progress. My butt is now in gear..........rebuilding.

I can do a brief overview based on the Wiki articles but my journal articles are toast.

Ashen
June 11th, 2012, 01:16 AM
Grph......maybe not. I picked up a trojan last Friday and had to wipe my computer. I lost a lot of data and I lost anything in progress. My butt is now in gear..........rebuilding.

I can do a brief overview based on the Wiki articles but my journal articles are toast.

Ouch.. that sucks.. Soma recommends getting a external hard-drive to keep important files on, that way if you have a virus or need to reboot all is not lost... we went through losing our music files 3 or 4 times before we finally got one, and four years later with many many re-formats we're very thankful.. sorry for your loss of hard work. :(

Lyke
June 11th, 2012, 03:05 AM
If it not too late, and you guys need any extra help, I have experience in website building and administration. If not, thats cool too, just thought i'd throw that in there(;

WolfVanZandt
June 11th, 2012, 11:57 PM
Yer, of course, right, Ashen (and Soma), but I tend to stay much too close to broke for that. What I will do is avoid doing stupid things like downloading pictures from Google image. I would absolutely never do such a thing on my office computer but I guess I was feeling my oats.

Savage
June 12th, 2012, 12:17 AM
If you can upload crucial text files, I believe I can arrange for an ftp storage space.

If that won't work, how big an external might you need to back up therian history related stuff on?

WolfVanZandt
June 13th, 2012, 12:38 AM
Actually, it's not an issue anymore. What's gone is gone (except that it does exist out there in cyberspace and hardcopy - I'll just have to gather it back up.) I lost it from personal stupidity. Over 18 years I've easily avoided the same mistake at my office and I've quite learned my lesson here. I normally back up on CDs and I will be much more responsible to do so from now on.

The major problem right now is an ever more demanding job, RL problems (I just had a close acquaintance arrested for picking up mail that had fallen out of a bank's mailbox into the street and carrying it to them - stupidity like that), the need to do RL things that require time and money for the Were Community, and etc., etc. In other words, I'll get around to writing up the history material but it's a back burner project right now.

I have two all consuming goals right now - help establish the Were community and survive the next 7 1/2 years so I can retire and devote full time to the Were community. I'm shifting everything else to the back burner.

Savage
June 13th, 2012, 02:10 AM
If money for the community is needed, let's brainstorm a fundraiser.

WolfVanZandt
June 13th, 2012, 04:39 PM
Well, we need to track that but it doesn't sound all that expensive yet. We probably should have some way to expedite donations (preferably via credit card since some of us can't use PayPal - (clears throat pointedly)).

Talos
June 13th, 2012, 04:47 PM
Couldn't you guys try a kickstarter or somthing? I know I would be willing to throw in a little bit to help you get started, it feels more like early tipping more than anything since I know I would be using the site eventually and once again, I could give you a shout-out if that would help.

Savage
June 13th, 2012, 05:22 PM
Before accepting any money from anyone, we should have a better plan on what the money will be used for and how it is accounted. Everyone donating has the right to know exactly where it is going.

Kickstarter would not be my first choice however; we do not want a widespread public audience for a lot of very good reasons.

I would not mind establishing a more general fund however, one that could be used to do stuff like "buy WVZ an external HD for the specific purpose of conserving therian history".

WolfVanZandt
June 13th, 2012, 11:28 PM
I'm sorta like Paul - I don't do donations (or, better put, I don't take donations - I fund myself), but thanks for the thought. The moneys would go better to getting this website up and going and that should go to the Kentucky group or Coyote, according to where the need is.

Ashen
June 13th, 2012, 11:52 PM
If I can get the start up capital I plan on selling jewelry, it'd probably be a good 'therian related' item and donate to funds needed for various projects/the website. But that won't be for a while yet.

Savage
June 14th, 2012, 12:00 AM
If I can get the start up capital I plan on selling jewelry, it'd probably be a good 'therian related' item and donate to funds needed for various projects/the website. But that won't be for a while yet.

Possibly. How much would you need, or what materials?

I was thinking we could get artists to volunteer commissions, to start with, and take donations of stuff-and-whatnot for an Ebay or Etsy store. Or I can set up an ecommerce cart, if needed, though somebody would have to process the credit cards as I can not.

WolfVanZandt
June 14th, 2012, 12:03 AM
Have you checked on the Small Business Consortium (do ya'll have that in Kentucky?) as a resource. When I was knocking around looking for an in to my career, I tried some other ideas and the SBC was very obliging and useful. They were pretty much willing to do whatever it took to get me going other than to actually fund me - but they knew all the tricks on getting funded.

Ooh! In Kentucky, it's the Small Business Development Center.

Lenowill
June 14th, 2012, 12:14 AM
Hmm, Ashen and I will have to do some research on the SBDC. I wasn't aware it existed. :)

Speaking of small ventures, I'm looking at writing human-to-animal or human-to-anthro transformation stories/scenes for commission, mostly within the Furry Fandom, but if anyone on here is interested in one, I could write it. We could use the extra income.

Ashen
June 14th, 2012, 02:29 AM
Possibly. How much would you need, or what materials?

I was thinking we could get artists to volunteer commissions, to start with, and take donations of stuff-and-whatnot for an Ebay or Etsy store. Or I can set up an ecommerce cart, if needed, though somebody would have to process the credit cards as I can not.


small scale start up 2-3 hundred, larger scale 4-5 hundred for enough beads, string, etc and pendants and charms. small scale would make a mass produce for 30-50 bracelets, necklaces, arm bands etc. large scale would be closer to 70-100. Pendants are the most expensive part, unless someone wants a specific gemstone that is rare/expensive (real lapis is pricey) I'd love the idea of an ebay store.. could also add wood-burned crafts & plaques.

example of arm-bands & the general what my type of jewelry is. I'm pretty rough on mine & wear them almost all the time, including swimming and the elastic bands are pretty tough, although will tear if something pull under them enough.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p318/ashenspirit/Jewelry/arm.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p318/ashenspirit/Jewelry/brac2.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p318/ashenspirit/Jewelry/armband4.jpg

Savage
June 14th, 2012, 03:12 AM
Okay, let's think about how to raise that, though I would recommend starting very small and by building an existing store setup with the pieces you have already, or with 5-10 small pieces you can make on a budget, to see what kind of market there may be. It won't do a lot of good to sink money into stock you aren't sure you can turn over quickly, so establishing the market first is going to be important.

I may have some materials that could help you out as well. PM me.

herringbone
June 14th, 2012, 08:58 AM
I have been trying to offer myself as a resource, but, I suppose not really knowing all of you perhaps makes it awkward. I will put out another thing:
I am making therian jewelry, and I am a metal smith. I would be interested in making things to send to you, ashen, if you needed metalworks for your jewelry. I could also simply make a donation after I make some sales if you get a donation account.
I can also felt animal toys to sell and can help with money this way.

Ashen
June 14th, 2012, 01:04 PM
I have been trying to offer myself as a resource, but, I suppose not really knowing all of you perhaps makes it awkward. I will put out another thing:
I am making therian jewelry, and I am a metal smith. I would be interested in making things to send to you, ashen, if you needed metalworks for your jewelry. I could also simply make a donation after I make some sales if you get a donation account.
I can also felt animal toys to sell and can help with money this way.

Your pendants would be excellent for necklaces if people wanted them on a gemstone strand.. I'll pm you. :)

WolfVanZandt
June 15th, 2012, 12:30 AM
By the way, this weekend, I'm going to go back and start annotating my bibliography (the one on the Therian Timeline) and I will start adding citations to all my study materials as I access them. That should be some help to people looking for materials to do their own research.

Natsilani
June 15th, 2012, 08:10 PM
Lol yay fundraising! Might I reccomend a particular shout-out to furry therians here? If there's one thing the furry cummunity is good at, it's raising money. The fandom centers around that; the creation and selling of art.

Just a thought.

Lenowill
June 16th, 2012, 02:37 AM
Ashen and Soma made it here safe and sound and are going to bed for the night in their new place. :)

That makes seven therians and/or furries in our immediate neighborhood. Woohoo!

Anyway, my main reason for making this post is just to update people on that, since Ashen has been getting a lot of potential text together for the site.

WolfVanZandt
June 16th, 2012, 03:41 PM
Yay!!!

Now, about 15 more communities in the US would be really cool!

:)

I remember heated arguments less than 10 years ago that Were community didn't exist and the "communityites" were in the small minority. Thank you (and Coyote, and all the other Were communities and werehouses) for validating us!

Lenowill
June 17th, 2012, 03:59 AM
Yay!!!

Now, about 15 more communities in the US would be really cool!

We'll get right on that! ;-)



I remember heated arguments less than 10 years ago that Were community didn't exist and the "communityites" were in the small minority. Thank you (and Coyote, and all the other Were communities and werehouses) for validating us!

Yeah, we like living together. Resolving conflicts of personality (and sometimes of theriotype, which ties into personality) has been interesting at times, and we've had our share of failures, but overall it's been pretty successful. We've learned to live surprisingly healthily on surprisingly little, and I'm grateful for that.

I hope we keep learning communal self-sufficiency skills as the years go on and get to a point where we can literally say, "We make money so that we can pay for some things we want from larger society," rather than saying, "We make money so that we can survive, and money is required for meeting all of our survival needs."

Not having that impending weight over one's head (fearing for survival in a situation with too little money on hand) is a real blessing and makes it much easier to stay focused on what really matters in life. I really like that feeling of communal sufficiency.

WolfVanZandt
June 17th, 2012, 01:27 PM
Not having that impending weight over one's head (fearing for survival in a situation with too little money on hand)

O.o

Is that, like, possible?

Lenowill
June 17th, 2012, 08:03 PM
I am told it occurs. In limited degrees. Situational and such.

:P

(But of course, it inevitably involves working very hard at self-sustainment. And there's still the nigh-inescapable need for some money, but meh, what can you do.)