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View Full Version : "My Life as a Therian" - Interview with Shiro



ShadowWalker
September 6th, 2013, 10:23 AM
*Help Staff Note* - Posts moved from Therian Daily Thoughts (http://www.werelist.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31800) to it's own thread ~Somnia

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New article (http://www.psmag.com/culture/my-life-as-a-therian-64032/) on therianthropy published on the Pacific Standard's website - it's about Shiro/is taken from an interview with him. Already there are the standard comments.

Akai
September 6th, 2013, 10:39 AM
...did they really have to put that picture there? It looks ridiculous and makes him (and indirectly us) look ridiculous. And such a short snippet barely scratches the surfaces of who we are. Certainly a lot more space could have been dedicated to making a real article.

Fruit of the Moon
September 6th, 2013, 01:10 PM
New article (http://www.psmag.com/culture/my-life-as-a-therian-64032/) on therianthropy published on the Pacific Standard's website - it's about Shiro/is taken from an interview with him. Already there are the standard comments.

Hahaha!

Lets see:
1. Stupid furry hat only acceptable to be worn on children.
2. A dog collar. Neither wolves nor humans wear collars, dude.
3. Some sort of cheap looking necklaces over a t-shirt.
4. T-shirt is literally one of the worst lines of t-shirts imaginable. Only rednecks and shut-ins would find these acceptable.

So if we break it down we've got:

1. Furry who needs to grow up.
2. Furry fetishist. 'Hello world! I just know you guys want to know all about my favorite kinks in the bedroom!'
3. Tacky.
4. This is literally worse than wearing socks with sandals or wearing your pants below your ass. How can anyone willingly wear one of these?

Put it together with a failed attempt at duckface annnnd you get... a complete tool.


Now let's look at the article.


• For me, I would explain it as being a wolf in a human body. Everything else—my mind, my soul—is wolf.Not going to go into the soul thing but saying your mind is literally a wolves? C'mon.


• I’ll growl sometimes, I’ll bark sometimes, and I’ll howl sometimes. I’m pretty open, but a lot of people will hide it—and for good reason. When I was in high school, I was severely bullied.Severely bullied for good reason indeed. Learn to control yourself in public, man. Everyone else has to do it, so do you.


• We’re not furries. You know the people who go to Comic-Con and dress up like science-fiction characters? Furries are the same thing, just with animals. Unlike therians, they don’t actually identify with an animal as their persona.Yes you are. If wearing a furry hat, collar and wolf shirt isn't enough, I don't know what is.


• I’m not connected to humans because I’m a wolf inside, but I’m not connected to wolves because I’m in a human body. That can leave me feeling lonely and disconnected. Even therians who aren’t wolves—I’ve seen things as strange as cockroaches and insects—they know what I’m feeling. The only thing we all have in common is being a therian, so it’s a diverse community. But it’s also a tight-knit one because of the unique feeling we share.Fair enough.


• I’d definitely rather be my wolf self, but I do have some friends who are not therians, and I’m very grateful to have them in my life.Eh. Personal opinion is personal. Still makes you sound ridiculous to outsiders, though.


Not surprised at all by the reaction this article gets and honestly I believe it deserves it.

Shiro, I never met ya but I know you're probably a nice guy. You're on Werelist help staff last I checked, after all. I don't know how they got you into that ridiculous outfit and they probably twisted a lot of your words which is unfortunate given this probably took some time and effort.

If you willingly put that stuff on, I'll help you. Seriously. Message me. I've got a ton of info-graphs on male fashion along with some personal know-how. That goes for anyone else reading this as well.

Please know that I'm not attacking you so much as what you're wearing and how your words were portrayed in the article. For both of these it's absolutely crucial to present yourself in a professional and sane manner and things really fell short in that regard. I know that this article is already up and done with, but I'd love to help you and anyone else if it means we can represent our community better.

hotdogwolf
September 6th, 2013, 01:25 PM
Fruit, Don't you think your attacking Shiro personal preferences on how he wants to dress and to show off his therian side.? I mean I ware wolf t-shirts too in public. I have even growled ( A low growl ) at people. As for wear collars. Yes both people and wolves wear collars. If that wild wolf was captured and put a collar around his neck by a human. I have seen a few teenagers wear collars around there neck. One of my non-therian friends wore a collar for a short time. Also I was bullied in school too, But it wasn't because I was a therian. People get bullied for all kinds of dumb reasons. So it wasn't his fault for being who he was in school. They would have picked on him anyway even if he didn't show his therian side, and also me too if I had come out and say that I was a therian. I would have gotten bullied more.

Fruit of the Moon
September 6th, 2013, 02:36 PM
Fruit, Don't you think your attacking Shiro personal preferences on how he wants to dress and to show off his therian side.?

It's one thing when you're dressing for personal preference, it's an entirely different thing when you're dressing to represent an entire community. How would you like if Obama traveled to other countries to represent the US in his Hello Kitty pajamas?



As for wear collars. Yes both people and wolves wear collars. If that wild wolf was captured and put a collar around his neck by a human. I have seen a few teenagers wear collars around there neck. One of my non-therian friends wore a collar for a short time.

You mean tracking collars? Wolves don't willingly wear those and they're not the same as dog collars.

Reasons why humans wear dog collars:

1. Fetishist
2. Furry
3. To try and look edgy and unique (teenagers)

This is not acceptable in the adult world. Dog collars are for dogs. Leave your kinks at home unless you want to be ignored and not taken seriously.


Also I was bullied in school too, But it wasn't because I was a therian. People get bullied for all kinds of dumb reasons. So it wasn't his fault for being who he was in school. They would have picked on him anyway even if he didn't show his therian side, and also me too if I had come out and say that I was a therian. I would have gotten bullied more.

You're right. Could've been for anything, really. The problem lies in that the article is about therianthropy and the way it reads is that he was bullied for acting out in public making animal noises. It's implied so it's sort of unclear but if that's the case, it is his fault. He's responsible for his actions. That doesn't mean that he should of been bullied or that bullying is okay, but it's pretty easy to put two and two together. Learn how to act in a socially acceptable way like everyone else and you won't get bullied anymore.

Vintage
September 6th, 2013, 02:43 PM
^A better analogy would be Obama and flag pajamas; but okay. It doesn't matter if someone wears their theriotype on their shirt. you wouldn't know if the person is therian or not just by that...but Throw in the hat and that ridiculous pose..yikes.
--
therian thought:


..wishing for another dream.

Thursday
September 6th, 2013, 02:53 PM
New article (http://www.psmag.com/culture/my-life-as-a-therian-64032/) on therianthropy published on the Pacific Standard's website - it's about Shiro/is taken from an interview with him. Already there are the standard comments.

You know, well over a decade ago I considered myself furry (It explained the 'quirky impulses' I had), but then they start blasting me with strange and freakish shit that eventually made me bow out of the fandom. I have my standards as far as behavior goes, and if I find something to be too much of a personal/social liability, I cut it loose.

It's one thing for silliness online, but to take it offline? I have a good life and I don't need that kind of boat anchor dragging me down with it by the neck. Everything I got in life is because I know how to work for it, behave and look acceptable to others. If you go around looking like a tool, acting like a fairy and cry 'FURSECUTION!' enjoy getting nothing out of it because no one other than some folks feeling pity will take someone like that seriously.

Somnia
September 6th, 2013, 08:15 PM
Put it together with a failed attempt at duckface annnnd you get... a complete tool.

Name calling is absolutely NOT ok here if you wish to participate. It's fine to give criticism if it is done in an adult and mature manner, but do not resort to name calling and ridiculing another member.

Arawn
September 6th, 2013, 08:38 PM
...did they really have to put that picture there? It looks ridiculous and makes him (and indirectly us) look ridiculous. And such a short snippet barely scratches the surfaces of who we are. Certainly a lot more space could have been dedicated to making a real article.


He let them take the picture or he at least let someone film him in that pose. It's something that should have been thought about prior to letting the filming or picture happen.
__

The article can't even be called an article. It's short only details one person's experience. That hardly gives appropriate information on the group as a whole. That's about my only issue with the article except for the picture, which could have been better.

Savage
September 6th, 2013, 08:55 PM
Fruit, let me explain something to you. While stating your opinion in a courteous adult professional manner is fine, even if it is a critical one, what you are doing is personally abusive and insulting. It is over the line.

If you do this kind of thing to a regular member, we will take immediate action. At a minimum you get a serious warning, and your account may be suspended or put on moderated status for a time.

If you do it to staff, you only get a warning. You can't be suspended or banned *just* for being abusive to a staff member, if you aren't doing anything else. But no staff member is forced to continue working with anyone who is personally abusive to them. No one is expected to accept verbal abuse in the course of doing volunteer work to help their community. In fact if a user gets personal with a staff member, they are strongly discouraged from having anything to do with the case any more, and a different helpstaff member must step up to give calm, polite and impersonal customer service and judgment calls. A user who runs out of staff members willing or able to work with them is done here.

People have a lot more leeway for criticizing staff members than they do for criticizing other users. This policy exists to avoid the abuse of power and to keep us well away from the slippery slope of not allowing criticism of the site and the people who run it. You may freely criticize the staff and the site, in pretty much any terms you want, including four letter ones, and the worst that happens to you is that if you make it personal or say things that are personally triggering to a staff member, that person does not have to work with you any more. And you'll be asked to remember that the same rules do not apply if you are insulting people who are not helpstaff and who do not run the site.

To keep people from deliberately misusing this policy just so they can end up talking to a different helpstaff member, I would strongly suggest just asking politely if someone else can help you. Because there is also nothing stopping any helpstaff member from looking at a user who has just gone off on a personally abusive rant at someone else on staff, and saying, "Whoa, I'm not comfortable working with that person either." So theoretically if you are horrible enough to someone on staff, it could result in no one there being willing to work with you and your not being able to use the site any more. This has never actually happened, but it certainly could. You would have to be pretty horrible, though. Can't say as I've ever seen anyone be quite that bad here, short of the folks who broke the "no illegal stuff" rule anyway.

Now here's the interesting part. Shiro technically isn't staff here, because he doesn't actually have the time or desire for that. He's a technical consultant who helps us out. So it's going to be an interesting staff discussion call whether you are being abusive to a regular member, meaning you're likely to end up suspended or moderated, or whether our "free to criticize staff and site" policy should apply.

Thursday
September 6th, 2013, 09:09 PM
I think you guys are having a bit of a misunderstanding, I know my wife's mode of operation, she's not being abusive as much as she states things in the perspective of how the image in itself comes off. You have to admit, the thing isn't very flattering, I saw the picture and I was already on the fence regarding therianthropy, and that's pushing me a bit outside of the camp. The guy in the pic does look strange and I personally don't enjoy being associated with that, nobody outside of therianthropy will be put at ease and think 'peer'... She's seriously offering to help the dude out, believe me, her intent is definitely not to be abusive, I can vouch for that.

God knows I have my opinions and reservations, but she's stood up to my arguments in defense for therianthropy that I actually joined.

Savage
September 6th, 2013, 09:12 PM
Thursday, expressing criticism of the public image he presented as a representative of the therian community is acceptable free speech. Calling someone a nasty name (specifically, calling him a tool) goes beyond that. That is what I am addressing, along with the fact that some of the fashion/dress comments came off as a lot more mean spirited than constructive.

Thursday
September 6th, 2013, 09:24 PM
She's being very objective, when she said she was offering help as far as his dress goes, she was serious. When we started getting more intimate, she did a -ton- of research to help me out with my wardrobe and grooming and such, she meant it entirely constructively. Hell, I'll just be laying in her lap and she starts compulsively taking her tweazers at my face and had me toss a lot of old stuff, haha... She's not saying he is what she says as much as he portrayed himself to be that way, which if I was outside looking in, he'd just look like the stereotypical woolfaboo. But! It'll make more sense if it comes straight from the horse's mouth, I'm just responding to vouch for her character. Trust me on this, it's just a misunderstanding.

Naia
September 6th, 2013, 09:50 PM
@ Savage
Considering I have staff access, and my signature states that I am security staff on Werelist, I believe that Fruit should be extended the protection granted to users who are criticizing staff.

@ Thursday
Considering this is your spouse posting that we are discussing, we would prefer if you stayed out of moderation matters involving her. There is a natural bias when somebody you are intimate with is involved. Thank you.

Somnia
September 6th, 2013, 10:05 PM
Hahaha!

Lets see:
1. Stupid furry hat only acceptable to be worn on children.
2. A dog collar. Neither wolves nor humans wear collars, dude.
3. Some sort of cheap looking necklaces over a t-shirt.
4. T-shirt is literally one of the worst lines of t-shirts imaginable. Only rednecks and shut-ins would find these acceptable.

So if we break it down we've got:

1. Furry who needs to grow up.
2. Furry fetishist. 'Hello world! I just know you guys want to know all about my favorite kinks in the bedroom!'
3. Tacky.
4. This is literally worse than wearing socks with sandals or wearing your pants below your ass. How can anyone willingly wear one of these?

Put it together with a failed attempt at duckface annnnd you get... a complete tool.

This is the main problem. This comes across as ridiculing and being abusive to another member here. Fruit never makes it clear that she is making judgments on how other people might react to the article. The way it is written looks like it was directed at Shiro as a person, and its not mature behavior we expect of our users. The last part of Fruits post that I did not quote was written in a more mature manner, but the initial parts crosses the line.

Fruit of the Moon
September 6th, 2013, 10:10 PM
Name calling is absolutely NOT ok here if you wish to participate. It's fine to give criticism if it is done in an adult and mature manner, but do not resort to name calling and ridiculing another member.

I was saying that specifically to the combination of choice of clothing and expression, not to his person. But hey, I suppose there's some truth in the saying 'The clothes make the man' so it could be taken personal and I'm sorry for that.

Savage: I think I get what you're saying. I actually wasn't aware of those policies so thanks for bringing them up and telling me what you guys are discussing in regards to my account.

Shiro: Hey dude. First time I've seen a post from ya and it's in a bit of a sticky situation, haha. I understand I was being pretty harsh and it's difficult to not take that personally but I honestly in no way meant it to be. It's more about the picture itself and how it represents the community but I realize now I wasn't very clear. I'm in no position to judge you, after all, I hardly know you. It takes a lot of guts to do an interview like that and I really respect you in that regard. I'm sorry if I offended you. Thanks for being such a good sport.

Naia
September 6th, 2013, 10:20 PM
@ Fruit
Not a problem. I understand that some members will be passionate about the interview, especially if they see it as representative of the community. The photographers took well over 1,000 photos of me, and I had no idea which one the magazine would use - because the photographer was a third party and simply provided them with all of the pictures. The one used was a designated 'silly pose', as I am not naturally going to act like that. I was impressed with the article itself, as it did not sensationalize or draw negative attention to the community. It was titled "My life as a Therian", told in first person, and signed with my name to ensure people would know that I was speaking of my experiences, not the community as a whole. It was brief, which I believe will encourage self-directed-research of readers who are genuinely curious. Just be careful with your choice of words when you're being critical of something, because sometimes they sound like a personal attack, and personal attacks are not professional or allowed on Werelist. Thank you for clarifying that it was not your intention for it to have come out that way. Your account won't be penalized, as I said, you have the freedom to be critical of staff, just watch how it comes out.

Fruit of the Moon
September 6th, 2013, 10:28 PM
Shiro: Thanks for understanding, man. Suppose I should take it up with whoever decided on the photo! I'm all for silly shit but it certainly can be misinterpreted as serious business to just random readers. I suppose I shouldn't be making posts right when I wake up in the morning when I'm prone to having no filter.

If you guys really don't like my post being there I'm pretty ambivalent about it being taken down so feel free to do so if you believe that's what needs to be done.

Savage
September 6th, 2013, 10:41 PM
Okay. Thanks for the clarification.

While we do not penalize user accounts just for criticizing staff members, we do want to ask you (and everyone) to be aware of the difference between constructive criticism and mean spirited or personally insulting name calling, and to please remain calm, constructive and mature when expressing your dislike or disagreement with other people's lifestyle choices and how they present themselves. Thank you.

Somnia
September 7th, 2013, 06:33 AM
So back on topic, and my personal opinions about the brief article...

Sorry to say, but I'm not at all impressed with the photo that was used for the article. First impressions mean a lot to people, and in my opinion, it's way too silly to have on an article about someone's personal take on Therianthropy. Shiro admits it himself saying the photo isn't very flattering and that it was a designated "silly pose", but I wish the people in charge of picking the photo would have chosen something better.

"Therianthropes (therians, for short) are people who identify as animals. First spotted in Internet chat groups in the early 1990s, therians are found today on a range of websites, at regional gatherings, and as central characters in at least one series of romance novels."

I don't know why, but the very last part really bothers me for some reason. Why did the article need to even mention that therians are central characters in romance novels? I think it would have been better to have left that part out and not mention it at all.

I wish the article was longer, and while it was short, I'm glad that certain points got mentioned, such as the differences between therians and furries, and mentioning that there are therians who identify as cockroaches and insects (also in the comments other people mention frog and bunny therians). Personally, I can't help that I, and a LOT of other therians, identify as a wolf or other "popular" theriotype. We don't chose what we identify as, and it does get tiresome when critics think we choose what animal we identify as because it's a cool animal or whatever.

Lanina
September 7th, 2013, 07:35 AM
Bad picture. Too short article.
Meh, could have been better, could have been worse.

Draconic
September 7th, 2013, 09:56 AM
The picture is funny. I can see it being used as an internet meme to make fun of otherkin in the future. No offense of course! I can just see it happen, especially on tumblr.

Edit; And just like I suspected, this image made it into tumblr.

Mallo
September 7th, 2013, 10:07 AM
Bad picture. Too short article.
Meh, could have been better, could have been worse.


I tend to agree with this statement. The picture isn't very flattering, just like Shiro said in one of the comments on the article. I am agreeing with Shiro on that. I think that's likely the journalist's fault, of course...

The article was definitely short. It wasn't the worst article I have seen...it's actually far better than a lot of articles and documentaries, which lump furries in with therians, show people who are confusing what are clearly animal totems with their theriotype, or display those who seem a bit "out of touch".

I'm sort of indifferent when it comes to the article itself. What does bother me, is a comment there that says that those who identified as therians in 1998 have since "grown up", are now "sensible human beings", and then goes on to say that they show "embarrassment" about what they once believed. This person seems to believe that all therians are teenagers who are living in a fantasy world. In reality, I've seen therians of all ages. Maybe what causes my reaction the most, is that my therianthropy is so ingrained that I don't even notice it half the time. I just am, and that's that. It's not a matter of maturity for me...and I doubt it will ever be. I've been in the community for years.

Eeesh...I sincerely hope I wasn't offensive in my comments! That's not my intention.




-Thylae

Veruth
September 7th, 2013, 11:00 AM
What does bother me, is a comment there that says that those who identified as therians in 1998 have since "grown up", are now "sensible human beings", and then goes on to say that they show "embarrassment" about what they once believed. This person seems to believe that all therians are teenagers who are living in a fantasy world. In reality, I've seen therians of all ages. Maybe what causes my reaction the most, is that my therianthropy is so ingrained that I don't even notice it half the time. I just am, and that's that. It's not a matter of maturity for me...and I doubt it will ever be. I've been in the community for years.




-Thylae

It's probably because of articles like this.
The dumbass teenagers and people that act like them are the most visible and vocal. If that's all most people see, then I don't really blame anyone for thinking that's all there is. Of course, part of it probably is maturity. The people who aren't really therians will grow out of therianthropy and the people who are will eventually grow into less insufferable people.

Savage
September 7th, 2013, 01:23 PM
As to agreeing to being photographed in a "designated silly" pose, all I can say is, I told you so ahead of time. You can sit for hours of serious, thoughtful, dignified footage, and the photographer says, "Hey, let's just do one silly bit, would you, please?" And if you do not at that point tell them that you refuse because you are uncomfortable with that kind of depiction making it into the media, guess what will happen. Either you are dignified 100% of the time in front of the cameras or the media spread will deliberately use the most "shocking" or ridiculous pictures that make you look as abnormal as possible.

Anyhow, that's all I'm saying. I told you so. It was a terrible idea to get that comfortable with the media, and I warned you about the tactics they would use to make you feel that you could do that. So now you know, and hopefully so does everyone else.

Fruit of the Moon
September 7th, 2013, 01:36 PM
It was titled "My life as a Therian", told in first person, and signed with my name to ensure people would know that I was speaking of my experiences, not the community as a whole.

I think I missed this part last night. That's good, it helps. But you're still representing the community as whole. Even if it wasn't your intent to, you're still going to make an impression on what therians are to people that know nothing about them so next time they see 'therian' they'll think about that picture. The article was pretty tame but I can't really see people looking past their first initial judgements and thinking 'maybe this was just a silly pose and not all therians dress like that'. Stereotypes are born in their minds and now everyone wears collars and such.

People conform to societal standards of dress to avoid such judgements. Having someone wear a suit and tie when addressing the public is kind of like armor from stereotyping because it's classic formal wear; everyone's used to it and so they'll be paying more attention to you and what you have to say rather than your clothing.



I wish the article was longer, and while it was short, I'm glad that certain points got mentioned, such as the differences between therians and furries, and mentioning that there are therians who identify as cockroaches and insects (also in the comments other people mention frog and bunny therians). Personally, I can't help that I, and a LOT of other therians, identify as a wolf or other "popular" theriotype. We don't chose what we identify as, and it does get tiresome when critics think we choose what animal we identify as because it's a cool animal or whatever.

Coming from a psychological 'nurture' perspective is makes perfect sense why more therians are the 'cool' animals. What sort of animals are we exposed to most in media, books and in zoos? The 'cool' ones, of course. Big cats, wolves mainly. Most popular pets? Dogs and cats.

I never chose to be a wolf but at some point early in life they imprinted on me most likely through some form of media and well, there ya have it.

It is curious, though. I was exposed to so much more animals than wolves at a young age (favorite toys were a horse and rabbit, first pet was baby chicks, favorite movie was Lion King) and yet nothing else stuck like wolves. Who knows.

Somnia
September 7th, 2013, 02:00 PM
Coming from a psychological 'nurture' perspective is makes perfect sense why more therians are the 'cool' animals. What sort of animals are we exposed to most in media, books and in zoos? The 'cool' ones, of course. Big cats, wolves mainly. Most popular pets? Dogs and cats.

Oh yes, I definitely agree with you here, and I think we have a few threads somewhere about this kind of subject. We don't know what we were exposed to at early ages before we were able to have solid memories, so we can't overlook the possibility of media or other experiences influencing our psyche at an early age.


It is curious, though. I was exposed to so much more animals than wolves at a young age (favorite toys were a horse and rabbit, first pet was baby chicks, favorite movie was Lion King) and yet nothing else stuck like wolves. Who knows.

This was me as well. I had all sorts of animal books, ones with tons of pictures of many different animals and creatures, so I had a lot of exposure and knew about different kinds of animals and sea creatures at an early age. I don't think we will ever really know why we identify with the animal(s) we do, but I think what's most important is that we spend enough time on ourselves to come to a good conclusion and be honest with ourselves and go with whatever feels right.

hotdogwolf
September 7th, 2013, 08:24 PM
*Help Staff Note* - Posts moved from Therian Daily Thoughts (http://www.werelist.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31800) to it's own thread ~Somnia

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New article (http://www.psmag.com/culture/my-life-as-a-therian-64032/) on therianthropy published on the Pacific Standard's website - it's about Shiro/is taken from an interview with him. Already there are the standard comments.
:( Everything about that picture ( NOT, NOT about Shrio ) the picture is just all wrong. They should have used another picture. Other then that, The news article is short but also to the point. At least they got the questions and answers down right. I'm with Somnia. I didn't like the news article saying that we where used in a romance novel. I think they did it just for some shock value. They didn't take us serious, Because if they had. The new article would be longer and they wouldn't have used that picture of Shrio.

Alliana
September 9th, 2013, 01:59 PM
I wear wolf shirts because I happen to love wolves (well that and part of my theriotype is a wolf, it just makes me feel more closer to them) and I'd be damned to have anyone tell me that I should wear something different. :P I think the same goes for Shiro too, what he wants to wear is his business.


So theoretically if you are horrible enough to someone on staff, it could result in no one there being willing to work with you and your not being able to use the site any more. This has never actually happened, but it certainly could.

Actually, I do recall this one guy in the Success to Seek Elsewhere who was complaining about the Chinese who were using live animal chains and using racist words towards them got banned (because they exhausted the help staff), so there was somebody.

Naia
September 9th, 2013, 02:13 PM
I wear wolf shirts because I happen to love wolves (well that and part of my theriotype is a wolf, it just makes me feel more closer to them) and I'd be damned to have anyone tell me that I should wear something different. :P I think the same goes for Shiro too, what he wants to wear is his business.



Actually, I do recall this one guy in the Success to Seek Elsewhere who was complaining about the Chinese who were using live animal chains and using racist words towards them got banned (because they exhausted the help staff), so there was somebody.
Another Wolf Shirt connoisseur! Feel free to PM me. :)

Savage
September 9th, 2013, 03:03 PM
Actually, I do recall this one guy in the Success to Seek Elsewhere who was complaining about the Chinese who were using live animal chains and using racist words towards them got banned (because they exhausted the help staff), so there was somebody.

There was a lot more going on than that. We stay pretty transparent, but we also have respect for user privacy and not quite everything hits the front page.

What I meant was that it is theoretically possible for a user to be so horrible to a single staff member that all of us would immediately refuse to work with them. They would have to be pretty horrible for that to happen. So far no one has been quite that bad.

If a user says I'm an asshole, a bad admin, a totally worthless incompetent fat hairy bastard, a stupid ugly dickless fucktard, a waste of oxygen on the face of the planet, etc, I let them know that perhaps someone else on staff can do a better job of helping them in a professional manner and that I will no longer be personally involved with their account. No account is penalized for criticizing the site or the staff, even if we explain that they should keep the criticism more level headed and mature if they expect a constructive response.

But if their temper tantrum was bad enough that the entire rest of the staff thinks that this person is an abusive nut case whom no one can possibly try to help without being raged at, and no one wants to pick up the ball, nobody is forced to. That's when the "sorry, but you just ran our entire helpstaff out of the building" policy goes into effect. It's possible that the type of rant I detailed above would have that effect.

So far every time someone has tossed the ball up in the staff forum because a user got angry with them, it has been picked up. Even if someone is insulting and abusive to me, I ask nicely for someone else to please be willing to help them, because I assume they are a troubled user with needs that it would be ethically a good thing to try to meet. I just can't meet them myself at that point, because a) that user already has a mad on for me, and b) I have reasonable personal boundaries and I reserve the right to step back from an interaction if it becomes abusive.

Think of it like going to a bar and ordering drinks. If you creep out one server enough that they refuse to serve you any more, you might still be able to come into and order from someone else. But if your behavior is so abusive or so often repeated with everyone that not a single server who works there is willing to interact with you any more, you're out of luck.

We want to help and be of service to the community. But we aren't martyrs. We can't force anyone who volunteers with us to keep trying to help a person who is doing things that are personally triggering or upsetting to them. We do ask respectfully if anyone else is willing to deal with a troubled, angry person in the hopes of helping them and meeting their needs. So far it has always been answered and attempted. It's pretty rare that somebody doesn't eventually succeed, but yes, it's happened.

Alliana
September 11th, 2013, 01:12 PM
Ohhh, I see. :) Okay, thanks for the clear-up!

Somnia
September 12th, 2013, 10:01 AM
I'm coming back to this because this article really, really bothers me....


I think I missed this part last night. That's good, it helps. But you're still representing the community as whole. Even if it wasn't your intent to, you're still going to make an impression on what therians are to people that know nothing about them so next time they see 'therian' they'll think about that picture. The article was pretty tame but I can't really see people looking past their first initial judgements and thinking 'maybe this was just a silly pose and not all therians dress like that'. Stereotypes are born in their minds and now everyone wears collars and such.

Yes, I definitely agree with this, and Fruit has a lot of good points that you, Shiro, really should consider before doing future interviews.

I keep thinking about this article, and the Logo "documentary" (if you even want to call it that, I know I don't) and it is troublesome to me. Shiro, I honestly hope you learn from this, and please take heed the warnings that folks give you when/if you decide to participate in future interviews. The picture of you that was chosen for the article is enough for people to not take what you say seriously. I think the written content was fairly decent for the most part, however I will never personally reference that article to anyone who is new to Therianthropy, or anyone who is curious about it. It's not a good first impression at all.

Another thing you should keep in mind is even though you are telling your therianthropy from your personal point of view, a lot of people will be judgmental and will assume that all therians act and look a certain way when it's not true for everyone. You need to be very careful how you present yourself on camera, but I also understand that media will often twist footage to make people look ridiculous. This should serve as a great warning of caution before anyone decides to be a part of a shock media documentary.

In my opinion, I think the only way we can make a serious documentary is if therians themselves are in charge of making the documentary instead of an outside media group that will ultimately go for shock value. This has been discussed on other threads, but it's honestly the only way I can think of to have therians in the media and the footage/pictures not be twisted for shock value.

Yoraeryu
September 12th, 2013, 10:21 AM
I'm going to agree with Somnia and Savage on this (as I often do).

Shiro, I really appreciate the message you were trying to give. However, Savage is absolutely correct in saying, "I told you so."

Is it really difficult to go to an interview looking like a professional adult? Suit and tie, no fuzzy hat, no chains, no COLLAR (seriously, what?), no three wolf moon shirt? You're 19, its time for you to be thrust into the real world that doesn't accept or appreciate us in the slightest.

This is certainly a warning to anyone that thinks they want to do an interview with any media whatsoever. They WILL portray you as a nutcase if you give them the chance, absolutely no doubt about it. That picture just... Ugh. I cringe when I see it. And you mentioned you had a better picture of yourself howling? Why give them that sort of ammunition in the first place??

My ideal interview is sitting, not moving, not raising your voice, wearing professional attire, no tattoos or piercings or wacky hairstyles visible. Just a normal, everyday, socially acceptable person. Of course, no one in their right mind would ever publish such a thing- it would garner no attention.

And don't you or anyone else ever think that any sort of person from the media is willing to hear "the real story" on therianthropy- the ONLY reason they are there is to sensationalize the nutjobs that think they're animals. That is IT.

Lanina
September 12th, 2013, 11:39 AM
My ideal interview is sitting, not moving, not raising your voice, wearing professional attire, no tattoos or piercings or wacky hairstyles visible. Just a normal, everyday, socially acceptable person. Of course, no one in their right mind would ever publish such a thing- it would garner no attention.


To be clear, more serious stuff can be published. The interview with me back in like 2010(?), for instance. They more or less followed my advice. I wore normal clothes (jeans, black jacket, sneakers), the pictures used were either taken from far way, or showed only details of me (my hands or an eye) in order to decrease the risk of strangers recognising me and approaching me later. I did wear a wolf pendant, which was used in the photos, but I consider the result tasteful, not over-the-top.

Note! One has to be picky with what kind of photos one allows to be taken, put emphasis on the right things, and most importantly: find a serious journalist, be aware of what the common traps are. I think these "media traps" may be different in different cultures, so that's up to the individual to think about.
For instance, I was interviewed by another journalist later, and he wanted to film me "doing wolf stuff". I declined. Even though he went through all that work of interviewing me and some other therians, taking photos... the article was never published. Perhaps because there wasn't anything "juicy" enough. But that one was for an evening tabloid, not a morning newspaper as in the first case.

It disappoints me too that Shiro, after that Logo thing, didn't seem to learn much. When it comes to small communities like this, you have to remember that you represent not only yourself. You will be the first impression of therians for many. An official article is not the same as a personal blog post or facebook profile.

hotdogwolf
September 12th, 2013, 12:33 PM
I am going to jump in and say, That if we are going to make our own documentary, Then we should release it on youtube or give to a TV network that is not American. TherianAndrewH also said the same thing. There are other country TV media that have done shows on us and they having turned what other therians have talked about in there interview into a shockumentary. American TV is just to much of what I am going to call Shock TV now a days. Other country's are not like that. Also it doesn't appear that they are also judgmental on what they show or talk about.

Savage
September 12th, 2013, 12:51 PM
Is it really difficult to go to an interview looking like a professional adult? Suit and tie, no fuzzy hat, no chains, no COLLAR (seriously, what?), no three wolf moon shirt? You're 19, its time for you to be thrust into the real world that doesn't accept or appreciate us in the slightest.

This. The fact is that if you dress and present yourself to the media in this manner, you represent us with an unprofessional appearance that will cause therians to be mercilessly mocked and made fun of. Whether or not you told the media you were representing the therian community, that is effectively what a media appearance as a therian does. It simply isn't possible to dlsclaimer it to the point that any media appearance does not have that effect and does not impact other therians and how we will be seen and identified by the public.



My ideal interview is sitting, not moving, not raising your voice, wearing professional attire, no tattoos or piercings or wacky hairstyles visible. Just a normal, everyday, socially acceptable person. Of course, no one in their right mind would ever publish such a thing- it would garner no attention.

And don't you or anyone else ever think that any sort of person from the media is willing to hear "the real story" on therianthropy- the ONLY reason they are there is to sensationalize the nutjobs that think they're animals. That is IT.

This, +1. If you give the media any ammunition, such as unprofessional attire, a collar that can be construed as fetish wear whether it is or not, poses or non socially acceptable behavior such as howling that can be sensationalized and mocked, it will be. You may not care if you are mocked, but other therians may, and anyone who represents themselves as a therian in the media absolutely does effectively represent us in the public eye. There are no disclaimers that reduce or deny that inevitable effect. It doesn't work that way, and you do end up having an impact on all other therians when you present yourself to become a therian image in the media.

This impact has not been a good one. It could be worse, but it could certainly have been much more dignified, adult and professional, with more serious attire and behavior, that would have been a better representation of therians in the media.

Nobody here is the boss of you and no one can tell you how to dress or present yourself. But conversely, if you dress and present yourself to the media in ways that result in therians being mercilessly mocked and derided, people can get angry at you, because your choices did have that direct impact on them. You can say that you didn't TELL anyone you were representing all therians, therefore it's not going to affect or represent anyone but yourself. But that is simply not true. The real world does not work that way, and your choices of attire and behavior do directly impact other therians in their workplaces, their school and family lives, when others see your choice of representation in the media and then learn that someone they know is a therian.

There's a reason I'm pretty deep in the closet, and this kind of public image would be why. I can not represent myself publicly as a therian with dignity if someone has been there before me in a collar and fuzzy hat making funny faces and howling, showing the media that this is what a therian looks like. That is the actual, practical result of making this kind of portrayal in the media, and it does have a serious adverse effect on all of us. People are expressing that now, and as long as they can do so in a calm and courteous manner that does not involve personal insults, they have every right to. I am generally in agreement with the sentiment of being unhappy with the fact that many more people are going to think of this undignified image and laugh when they think of what a therian is.

We are not the boss of anybody and have no right to tell you what you can and can't do, but the consequences of your choices can affect other people. That's part of living in the real world.

Kisota
September 12th, 2013, 01:34 PM
For instance, I was interviewed by another journalist later, and he wanted to film me "doing wolf stuff". I declined. Even though he went through all that work of interviewing me and some other therians, taking photos... the article was never published. Perhaps because there wasn't anything "juicy" enough. But that one was for an evening tabloid, not a morning newspaper as in the first case.


You. I like you. Good call on how you handled that (and seemingly all the interviews and stuff you've done, hot dang!)

There's not much I can add here that hasn't already been said. But yeah, add me to the tally of people who don't appreciate this kind of media portrayal of us. I open a tab with a picture like that and I groan, sigh, and dig myself a little deeper into my hole of secrecy.

If we want to be more public and open about therianthropy, and invite worthwhile scientific study and all that... we have to stop presenting therianthropy in a way that makes professional adults feel ashamed and embarrassed about it and makes the general public point and laugh.

Tread carefully, everyone.

Fruit of the Moon
September 12th, 2013, 01:49 PM
Shiro, you have a job, right? Do they let you dress like that at work? Would you dress like that when going in for an interview? You see where I'm going with this.

I've known about Therianthropy for 5 years and I didn't decide to join in until recently when I found The Werelist. Why? Because I thought you were all a bunch of nutjobs, that's why. The only basis I really had to judge you guys from was the 'fuck you I'm a dragon' guy.

I bet there's a ton of would-be-therians seeing that photo of you right now and thinking, "I don't want to be a part of that. That's not me." just like I did with dragon dude. This is why it so important to look as average joe and square as possible when addressing the public. You are literally a blank slate when you do this and people will be more likely to actually listen to what you have to say and relate.

You're driving potential therians away from the community. You're keeping any potential research on therianthropy from happening as nobody could take this seriously when this is all they see is what society would consider a 'freak'. You're sabotaging any efforts made by the community to look sane. You are literally killing therianthropy and by extension The Werelist of any ounce of good name or validity it could potentially have by your actions.

You can't just be doing this out of naivety. You've done this before, gotten backlash for it, and now you've done it again.

I'd like an apology. Not for me but everyone else. I apologized for calling you a tool, well, I think you need to apologize for not listening to absolutely anything anybody in your own community has ever said to you.

Thursday
September 12th, 2013, 03:21 PM
In my case, I pretty much washed my hands of therianthropy. I'm still interested in figuring myself out a bit more, but beyond that, I feel no fellowship to something I now consider a liability. If I was asked about therians, I'd respond 'What're those, furries or something?' to feign ignorance. Nothing personal, but I have a life I don't want compromised.

yourdeer
September 12th, 2013, 03:23 PM
I bet there's a ton of would-be-therians seeing that photo of you right now and thinking, "I don't want to be a part of that. That's not me." just like I did with dragon dude. This is why it so important to look as average joe and square as possible when addressing the public. You are literally a blank slate when you do this and people will be more likely to actually listen to what you have to say and relate.


Unfortunately, I can attest to this. I know a couple animal-people who will not involve themselves in the online community because of the assumption that many or most active community members are well-represented by this kind of image. For a while I was wary of involving myself and for pretty much those same reasons, too.

While I've come to think that being an "out and proud" therian is almost definitely critical to some people's sense of self or self-validation, I do believe there is a time and a place to be more visible and "out there" and more vocal. While not all of us can or want to (or have to) look like "an average Joe," there's a lot to be weighed about looking out-of-the-ordinary, especially in a media representation that's going to be the first many people have ever heard of therians.
I have a nagging feeling that this is how some rude/ugly stereotypes are made, and it would kind of suck if therians had to work as hard to shake the "collared, ear-hat furry teenager who howls in the woods" stereotype as nerds do to shake the "greasy unemployed male in parents' basement" stereotype or as lesbians do to shake the "dumpy, aggressive butch" stereotype... and so on, since most people in those kinds of subcultural/minority groups are not well-defined by those stereotypes. It does sadden me that many people seeing these interviews are probably forming a stereotype about all of us based on it, especially since a lot of us are not even remotely well-represented that way.
While the only thing that the rest of us can do to counterbalance the effect is be open, ourselves, and say, "Yes I am this, and look, I'm your average person with a fairly average, functional life," or "Yes, I am this and I'm a little unusual, but it isn't much of a big deal," or even "Yes, I am this and it's part of everything I do, but I am treating it in a way that is serious, not for your entertainment," that appears to be very much not a viable option for a lot of people. I am glad that there are vocal therians out there who are not permitting themselves to be sensationalized in this way.
In a situation where you are something that a lot of people don't understand, as much as it sucks and is unfair, you have to be the rep sometimes. I went to art school and had to constantly tell non-art people that we're not all smoking, lazy, showy snobs and that art school is actually really fucking hard. I'm queer and I have had to explain to way too many people that sexuality is fluid, sexual and gender identity are not the same, that I'm not turned on by my reflection, etc. I have a trans* partner and also have to be a rep for trans* people and trans* relationships. And so on, and so on. Yes, you have to speak for yourself, but when you are being the rep, you have to remember that you are creating an initial image of everyone with that identity to the person/people you are speaking to.

hotdogwolf
September 12th, 2013, 03:51 PM
Do you think it would be best for the community to have maybe one or more adult therians representing the therian community on any and all TV media shows like the logo channel and other networks.? Do you think we should have a representative for the therian community.? Also. People are going to pass judgment on us regardless of how a therian dresses.

Thursday
September 12th, 2013, 03:57 PM
Do you think it would be best for the community to have maybe one or more adult therians representing the therian community on any and all TV media shows like the logo channel and other networks.? Do you think we should have a representative for the therian community.? Also. People are going to pass judgment on us regardless of how a therian dresses.
It depends on how you want to be judged. Do you want to be judged as something moderately respectable, someone that's a bit out there, but doesn't have the 'Holy shit, what a freak' factor, or do you want to go out there in half a fursuit and be associated with a furry/wolfaboo/adult that never grew up.

Thing is man, people pass judgement on everything, it's what we do, the issue is, how will you allow yourself to be judged, honestly it's entirely our own fault for our naivety, but I can't even blame it on that given that deep down we know better but hope for the best. I'm sorry to say, the latter will never be acceptable unless it's a convention or something and it's just considered 'campy'.

Fruit of the Moon
September 12th, 2013, 04:01 PM
Do you think it would be best for the community to have maybe one or more adult therians representing the therian community on any and all TV media shows like the logo channel and other networks.? Do you think we should have a representative for the therian community.? Also. People are going to pass judgment on us regardless of how a therian dresses.

The first rule when doing interviews with the media:
1. Don't do interviews with the media.

It's much better to go to researchers and academic types if you want therianthropy to be recognized.

hotdogwolf
September 12th, 2013, 04:07 PM
It depends on how you want to be judged. Do you want to be judged as something moderately respectable, someone that's a bit out there, but doesn't have the 'Holy shit, what a freak' factor, or do you want to go out there in half a fursuit and be associated with a furry/wolfaboo/adult that never grew up.

Thing is man, people pass judgement on everything, it's what we do, the issue is, how will you allow yourself to be judged, honestly it's entirely our own fault for our naivety, but I can't even blame it on that given that deep down we know better but hope for the best. I'm sorry to say, the latter will never be acceptable unless it's a convention or something and it's just considered 'campy'.
I like to be judged as respectable. Representing a community that has been looked at as ( As you say, furry/wolfaboo/that never grew up) I know people will always pass judgment on us but maybe with a respectable therian or therians in the spotlight then maybe there will be a little less judgment. For Fruit. Yeah, Your got a point but I think that is only for American Television. Question. Is Canadian Television like.? Would we be shown as nutjobs on Canadian Television.?

Ashen
September 12th, 2013, 04:27 PM
Shiro, you have a job, right? Do they let you dress like that at work? Would you dress like that when going in for an interview? You see where I'm going with this.

I've known about Therianthropy for 5 years and I didn't decide to join in until recently when I found The Werelist. Why? Because I thought you were all a bunch of nutjobs, that's why. The only basis I really had to judge you guys from was the 'fuck you I'm a dragon' guy.

I bet there's a ton of would-be-therians seeing that photo of you right now and thinking, "I don't want to be a part of that. That's not me." just like I did with dragon dude. This is why it so important to look as average joe and square as possible when addressing the public. You are literally a blank slate when you do this and people will be more likely to actually listen to what you have to say and relate.

You're driving potential therians away from the community. You're keeping any potential research on therianthropy from happening as nobody could take this seriously when this is all they see is what society would consider a 'freak'. You're sabotaging any efforts made by the community to look sane. You are literally killing therianthropy and by extension The Werelist of any ounce of good name or validity it could potentially have by your actions.

You can't just be doing this out of naivety. You've done this before, gotten backlash for it, and now you've done it again.

I'd like an apology. Not for me but everyone else. I apologized for calling you a tool, well, I think you need to apologize for not listening to absolutely anything anybody in your own community has ever said to you.


Completely, totally agree with you... although to the best of my knowledge Shiro does not have a job or works from home. As well as Yora and others who have said is it that freakin' hard to go to an interview in either a formal shirt and tie, or t-shirt/sweater with no logo or picture? Shiro, you have every right to do 'what you want' but you are HURTING the community.. people have tried to tell you this over and over again. PLEASE LISTEN. ...and that's all I'm saying on this.. oh yea.. and why the fuck trust (especially after all the other experiences you've had with meida) why would you trust them to do a 'silly pose' O_o :mad:

Yoraeryu
September 12th, 2013, 04:28 PM
In my case, I pretty much washed my hands of therianthropy. I'm still interested in figuring myself out a bit more, but beyond that, I feel no fellowship to something I now consider a liability. If I was asked about therians, I'd respond 'What're those, furries or something?' to feign ignorance. Nothing personal, but I have a life I don't want compromised.

This. I wholeheartedly agree. I wear a theta-delta pendant that I made myself, but I do not wear it to professional meetings. I do not wear it to work. Its subtle, its dark, its not too flashy.

If someone asks me what it is, I say its a personal belief and DO NOT EXPAND UPON THE SUBJECT. I don't care whether its some average dude in the checkout line- I will not mention therianthropy out in public.

As part of the veterinary industry, I deal with the public and others in the field constantly. If word were to get out that I was a therian, I can just imagine the reaction- something along the lines of, "she's nuts, she's insane, she thinks she's a DOG, is she going to 'DO' something to my pet?"

No one in the public has any right to know what my personal life is. Its that simple.


I like to be judged as respectable. Representing a community that has been looked at as ( As you say, furry/wolfaboo/that never grew up) I know people will always pass judgment on us but maybe with a respectable therian or therians in the spotlight then maybe there will be a little less judgment. For Fruit. Yeah, Your got a point but I think that is only for American Television. Question. Is Canadian Television like.? Would we be shown as nutjobs on Canadian Television.?

Canadian television is the same and American television is the same as UK television is the same as television EVERYWHERE. TV is TV is TV.

I'm going to stay with Fruit here: don't do interviews with the media. Period. It wont turn out well, NO MATTER where you are.

Shiro, PLEASE stop.

Alliana
September 12th, 2013, 04:50 PM
Hmm, I'd have to agree on dressing for interviews and I see everyone's point on the whole shirt thing. One should look professional when one does interviews and coming off as silly just ends up hurting the community as a whole.

So I retract my earlier statement and I offer my apologies to Fruit for it, that is if they haven't ignored my future postings.

Thursday
September 12th, 2013, 05:00 PM
I think another issue would be not to overdo it either, if the issue is forced, they'll feel like you're hiding something. Formal casual might be a better option than 'professional', frankly I have no idea why people hold professional like it's the solution to everything, it's almost bordering on the fetishistic.

Know your audience, the demographic you're aiming for and go with that. I did quite a bit of singing for people back in the day, based on my audience, I'd change up my technique so they'd relate to it more, put too much technique into it and you come off as a robot or someone with an agenda. Personally, as a social engineer, the one thing I want to hear most from people is 'he's harmless', guard is down, you can work with that.

Actually, I'm starting to consider if therianthropy in itself is fucked and therianthropy 2.0 needs to come about with clear definitions and no baggage, yeah, we came from that, but that's what we're not. We're rational, we got a few quirks sure, but that's the extent of it for the most part. The less you make it a thing, the more people will be 'whatever' and not think too much of it. I'm sorry to say, but from experience, therianthropy will only be considered a synonym of furry, it's time to start fresh.

Edit: These things (http://volantis.yolo-swag.com/shiro/) started popping up three days after the photo, it's pretty clear to me bailing out the ship wont save it, too much stigma.

Fruit of the Moon
September 12th, 2013, 05:04 PM
So I retract my earlier statement and I offer my apologies to Fruit for it, that is if they haven't ignored my future postings.

Oh no, you don't have to apologize to me, haha. I appreciate it, though. I understand if someone likes wolf-shirts and whatnot and if they want to wear them in their free time, go for it.

I'm glad you understand what me and others are trying to get across.

Thursday
September 12th, 2013, 05:05 PM
Oh no, you don't have to apologize to me, haha. I appreciate it, though. I understand if someone likes wolf-shirts and whatnot and if they want to wear them in their free time, go for it.
This right here.

cheetah
September 12th, 2013, 05:43 PM
*takes one look at the article*

Shiro, this exact thing happened the last time you did an interview. People made you out to be a freak and an idiot, they did the exact same thing again.

So, given that the last time you did an interview, the exact same thing happened, why the hell did you expect this to be any different?

Draconic
September 12th, 2013, 06:07 PM
I think maybe the biggest issue with the article itself is the picture. People are already comparing us to furry lifestylers in the comment section now...

I have to agree with what has been said here; Teenagers wearing collars, hats with ears, wolf shirts and so on is deffinitely not what I want to be assossiated with.

And Shiro, I'm not trying to be offensive or anything like that, but I really don't think you're fit for the media. I can try to understand why you enjoy the attention; But you should go about it another way, as others have mentioned already. Your current way of doing it is not professional at all.

Thursday
September 12th, 2013, 07:53 PM
We really ought to work out some concrete guidelines and maybe a study as to how to handle the media and those who want to address it. Ideally as Fruit put it, the winning move is not to play, but if you're going for it, go with what'll work. People and their own personal lifestyles, way of dress etc, I'm as conservative and old school as they come, but I really have no problem with how a person goes about his daily life. If you were doing your thing and you get ambushed TMZ style, yeah, I can see it as people invading your life, but if you approach people of your own volition, it's 100% on you and whoever sees it is perfectly entitled to their first impressions. I can't fault anyone who associated us to furries, frankly, I'd agree with them based on what was there; it's my fault, your fault and everyones, it's on us. But, the nice thing is we can do something about it. If anyone's serious about wanting to make a change, maybe a group can be created and discussion can happen, we can make it happen. Anyone on board?

hotdogwolf
September 12th, 2013, 08:02 PM
We really ought to work out some concrete guidelines and maybe a study as to how to handle the media and those who want to address it. Ideally as Fruit put it, the winning move is not to play, but if you're going for it, go with what'll work. People and their own personal lifestyles, way of dress etc, I'm as conservative and old school as they come, but I really have no problem with how a person goes about his daily life. If you were doing your thing and you get ambushed TMZ style, yeah, I can see it as people invading your life, but if you approach people of your own volition, it's 100% on you and whoever sees it is perfectly entitled to their first impressions. I can't fault anyone who associated us to furries, frankly, I'd agree with them based on what was there; it's my fault, your fault and everyones, it's on us. But, the nice thing is we can do something about it. If anyone's serious about wanting to make a change, maybe a group can be created and discussion can happen, we can make it happen. Anyone on board?
That is what I been saying for a while now. A group board with older therian members. Question. What would we be discussing.? 2. If it is on how other therians may behave when giving an interview, What are we going to do. Tell them how to act or dress. I really don't think another therian is going to do what another therian asks or tells them to do.

Thursday
September 12th, 2013, 08:14 PM
That is what I been saying for a while now. A group board with older therian members. Question. What would we be discussing.? 2. If it is on how other therians may behave when giving an interview, What are we going to do. Tell them how to act or dress. I really don't think another therian is going to do what another therian asks or tells them to do.
I have no idea yet, I have no idea yet, don't tell them how to act or dress, don't tell them what to do. Thing is, it's not about telling them 'You must be this or that' as much as putting ideas, information, resources and potential guidelines. It'd have to be a voluntary thing, can't make anyone do what they don't want, that's not the purpose. Purpose is to offer resources to people so they can be aware and armed for such circumstances, maybe have vent events for mock interviews and what have you, infographs, articles etc, it'd take some research to hammer stuff out.

hotdogwolf
September 12th, 2013, 08:45 PM
I have no idea yet, I have no idea yet, don't tell them how to act or dress, don't tell them what to do. Thing is, it's not about telling them 'You must be this or that' as much as putting ideas, information, resources and potential guidelines. It'd have to be a voluntary thing, can't make anyone do what they don't want, that's not the purpose. Purpose is to offer resources to people so they can be aware and armed for such circumstances, maybe have vent events for mock interviews and what have you, infographs, articles etc, it'd take some research to hammer stuff out.
That sounds like a great idea. So next time there is an interview. Both the therian and maybe even the media people will get and have all the facts straight and not make what we say into a shock documentary and not to ask about our sex lives or as us to howl on camera or about our sexually. All those things must be off limits.

Thursday
September 12th, 2013, 08:49 PM
I don't know, the only variable we can control is ourself and maybe the environment where the interview would take place, and who's interviewing, haha... But, have to see if anyone's interested in this first. I'd actually prefer not to flood this topic so people get a chance to think it over.

hotdogwolf
September 12th, 2013, 09:04 PM
I don't know, the only variable we can control is ourself and maybe the environment where the interview would take place, and who's interviewing, haha... But, have to see if anyone's interested in this first. I'd actually prefer not to flood this topic so people get a chance to think it over.
Right, I get you.:)

Alliana
September 13th, 2013, 04:12 PM
Oh no, you don't have to apologize to me, haha. I appreciate it, though. I understand if someone likes wolf-shirts and whatnot and if they want to wear them in their free time, go for it.

I'm glad you understand what me and others are trying to get across.

Yeah, it took me a few more postings on this thread before that dull little lightbulb in my head went "*ding!*". But yeah, I can see why it wouldn't be appropriate now for professionalism sake.