Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 72

Thread: Elephant in the Living Room

  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,016

    Default

    If you had watched the show you'd see they were thinking something neurological with the lions until the owner came down and pretty instantly saw what the problem was. You're making judgmental statements before even watching the topic at hand, and the guy didn't go out and buy the lions, they were given to him, so yea he should have found proper homes for them, but he didn't just be like 'I think I'll buy a lion"

    Yea it's not possible for me to know you're life story but maybe if talking about a movie it'd be good to go watch it first, ya know so you kinda know what you're talking about before making judgement?
    ~~Our power can be replicated, but not our beginings~~

  2. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashen View Post
    If you had watched the show you'd see they were thinking something neurological with the lions until the owner came down and pretty instantly saw what the problem was. You're making judgmental statements before even watching the topic at hand, and the guy didn't go out and buy the lions, they were given to him, so yea he should have found proper homes for them, but he didn't just be like 'I think I'll buy a lion"
    Except I did see the show and that wasn't my first thought. My first thought was that something was going on with the cage. Once I saw the shed in the back, my mind went to that it might have had something to do with a power source.

    The reaction of the lion didn't strike me as neurological and how stiff he looked didn't strike me as that, either. Then hearing that the other lions (and seeing them) had also wigged out at the same time definitely reinforced the idea that it wasn't neurological. Seeing the improper housing of the cords just confirmed what I had already figured what was happening.

    Yes, it was an accident, but it could have easily been prevented had the man housed the electrical items properly or not placed the cages so close to it.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    423

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arawn View Post
    Except I did see the show and that wasn't my first thought. My first thought was that something was going on with the cage. Once I saw the shed in the back, my mind went to that it might have had something to do with a power source.

    The reaction of the lion didn't strike me as neurological and how stiff he looked didn't strike me as that, either. Then hearing that the other lions (and seeing them) had also wigged out at the same time definitely reinforced the idea that it wasn't neurological. Seeing the improper housing of the cords just confirmed what I had already figured what was happening.

    Yes, it was an accident, but it could have easily been prevented had the man housed the electrical items properly or not placed the cages so close to it.
    Except, due to shoddy/intentional editing, the perspective and shots were constantly shifted and the whole scene started in with an extended blur-in. It's not all that easy to figure out what's going on right away when the editing takes away the ability to analyze the situation easily. It didn't show the wires for a little while, I just watched it yesterday. :P

    I do agree about the precautionary measures, though. The whole setup was a pretty big mess, not just the cages.
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS]
    [/FONT]

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,016

    Default

    @ Arawn I wasn't really addressing that to you, more WolfBone, who was calling the owner a "incompetent imbeciles" and "unethical and obviously uneducated" with-out any real basis since from the sound of it he hasn't watched the movie, I don't agree with the owner, but I think he just loved the cats and was not 'unethical' simply didn't have any better option, after his son or whoever it was just gave him the cats.

    And that habitat was basically built/completed by Tim Harrison with volunteers and Outreach for Animals team, which tells me that it would be up to every safety code and proper measurements the USDA has put on sanctuaries/private owners. .. so it's not like it's just a pot shot enclosure, yea it could have not been in the middle of a junk yard and further away from the barn/shed, but it was built by the 'good guy of the law', I'm sure they had an electrician that did the wiring, or someone on the team who's had years of experience with the electrical. He certainly isn't 'unethical or uneducated' he's been working around the animals for over 35 years. He wasn't there when the incident happened but if you're blaming it on shotty enclosure rather than 'hey accidents do happen', then the 'good guys' are just as much to blame. If you look through USDA records, there have been quite a few really horrific 'accidents' that have happened even in accredited zoos. And yes I'm sure all of them could have prevented in some way, but hindsight is 20/20. *shrugs* plus the scene is like... watch 2-5 min long I don't remember, but who's to say what happened in the 10-13 min the camera wasn't on? Maybe no one was near the cats/able to see them freaking out and when they started vocalizing they came as fast as they could..we have no idea what happened before the camera was turned on.

    I'm *not* saying the cages are the best, only that they are the *same* of a low budget, but fully licensed and accredited sanctuary...only the sanctuary would be in a nicer lot of land/not junkyard...
    ~~Our power can be replicated, but not our beginings~~

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Newark, DE, USA
    Posts
    1,654

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashen View Post
    Book? I'm going to be ordering Tim Harrison's books and one I read when I was 12 which first got me started on the exotic animal situation was animal underground by Alan Greene, I was amazed at the part in this film, they got hidden camera's in a reptile expo, the amount and ease of purchasing venomous creatures is unbelievable.
    Yup, it's a book and a damn good one to!

  6. #26

    Default

    Ashen, at this point, I don't take anything you say seriously, and pretty much can't. Your biases on this is so readily apparent, and would be to me even if you hadn't basically spelled them out in your own posts in this topic. It's pretty easy to see where you're coming from. Your priorities are basically, first, "fuck people, there's too many of them anyway", second "preserve animals at all costs, preferably to human life", and then what's best for the animals. And of course, since these people, in your view, had ostensibly good motives (although I think in one of these posts here you agreed with Talos they didn't, but maybe you just figure they're doing the right thing for the wrong reasons?) you're more forgiving of what is, indeed, incompetence, which you rationalize as being the best they can do within their means.

    My point is if they don't have the means, whatever means may be necessary, they shouldn't be doing it. I think it's safe to say even "freak accidents" like the one described can be prevented, and ultimately, the responsibility lies with whoever takes custody of the animals, does it not?

    For real, you remind me of these people who demand I watch bullshit like Zeitgeist and Loose Change before having an opinion on the subjects as a whole as opposed to the individual films. Anyway I'm done driving my 4-wheeler through the holes in your logic here.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,016

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf-Bone View Post
    Ashen, at this point, I don't take anything you say seriously, and pretty much can't. Your biases on this is so readily apparent, and would be to me even if you hadn't basically spelled them out in your own posts in this topic. It's pretty easy to see where you're coming from. Your priorities are basically, first, "fuck people, there's too many of them anyway", second "preserve animals at all costs, preferably to human life", and then what's best for the animals. And of course, since these people, in your view, had ostensibly good motives (although I think in one of these posts here you agreed with Talos they didn't, but maybe you just figure they're doing the right thing for the wrong reasons?) you're more forgiving of what is, indeed, incompetence, which you rationalize as being the best they can do within their means.

    My point is if they don't have the means, whatever means may be necessary, they shouldn't be doing it. I think it's safe to say even "freak accidents" like the one described can be prevented, and ultimately, the responsibility lies with whoever takes custody of the animals, does it not?

    For real, you remind me of these people who demand I watch bullshit like Zeitgeist and Loose Change before having an opinion on the subjects as a whole as opposed to the individual films. Anyway I'm done driving my 4-wheeler through the holes in your logic here.
    I've just worked in a Sanctuary before, so I've seen how two sided the issue really is, a lot of sanctuary owners started out as someone who randomly acquired (or bought) an exotic animal, realized the plight of the situation and wanted to help more, so they took the time, money and energy to dedicate their lives to giving as many animals the best possible home they can....that's no small thing...Not everyone is that way, and certainly not the guy in the film.. but there are many many others that are in this situation as well. Are you saying the best thing for the animals is to have them euth'd ? t's not like there are humane associations for the exotics that are out there...that's part of the issue. I don't know the number on it but even half the good accredited ones end up cutting corners because of lack of funding..it's a fucked up situation on all sides of the issue, I'm not denying that, and I guess that's kinda why I flip back and forth, there is no right answer. *no it's not right, and it shouldn't have happened*, but it did, has, whatever but the only other choice is to euth (which is, at least to me, a worse option) There are rare occasions when a sanctuary can take animals in, and usually they get better areas as the sanctuaries get funding. When you've worked with the animals, see them daily, and realize they aren't in the best conditions but they are still happy to see you every morning, and get enjoyment out of things in life, are being fed properly, rather than just being completely miserable, sore ridden, sick, malnourished, etc. And in alot of situations of sanctuaries at least they are able to be outside, when before they were confined to a basement or room or something) you start to think that maybe this small fenced area isn't as bad as some other alternatives.

    And yes I believe there are too many people and therefore we can afford to loose a few, at the benefit of the animals populations balancing out. I don't care how you judge me for that...I don't see anything wrong with it.. I just don't care about humans as much as I do animals. I believe these wild animals should be in the wild, but in order to have that, we have to have wild places for them to go, in order to get that, the human population has to drop because people can't seem co-exist with predators in the wild/urban areas very well. so yea I'm biased on this subject, I've worked it, both in wildlife and domestic and I know others than work with both wild and domestic rescue situations, heard their stories, been researching this topic for years, have constant contact with different animal control teams.. you don't always get the best or get the greatness that some creatures deserve (which they do deserve) but when the option is life rather than death.. I'll go with life.
    ~~Our power can be replicated, but not our beginings~~

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    853

    Default

    Wolf-Bone, how do you interpret a "screw the humans" attitude from anything she's said here?
    So then the hydra says to the deli worker, "Please! I beg of you! I've got eight starving mouths to feed!"

  9. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenowill View Post
    Wolf-Bone, how do you interpret a "screw the humans" attitude from anything she's said here?
    You have to actually read her posts to see it, I guess. And it's not just been in this thread. Actually she told me in another conversation her attitude when 9/11 happened was basically "great, people needed to die". So forgive me if I don't consider her the most mature/rational person. And I'm notoriously cynical, pessimistic, misanthropic, etc. So it says something when I've had enough of the same from someone.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    853

    Default

    I've read through the thread, I was just wondering if you could point out something specific you felt pointed to that, since that's a pretty negative way to talk about someone without giving some evidence. Labeling someone a "hyooman hater" who isn't actually expressing it isn't healthy in my opinion, and I don't see evidence for it here, but if you get me a quote and why you interpret it as such then we can talk about it.

    As for the 9/11 thing, there can be plenty of reasons to think "Great, people needed to die" that don't reflect a worldview of hating humanity as a rule. Quite a few of us are getting worried the planet is becoming so overpopulated that we're eventually going to end up in a massive and terrible war that's subtly yet inexorably motivated by that fact. Some people cope with tragedy by considering any bright side the situation might have (staving off such an event), however dark the situation might be. I don't know if that's what Ashen was doing, but she can certainly explain her thought processes on it.
    So then the hydra says to the deli worker, "Please! I beg of you! I've got eight starving mouths to feed!"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •