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Thread: The Daily Groan (A thread to ease your pain) - The 3rd!

  1. #641

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    “Organizing”! Wow! This must be some heady, potent, metaphysical mana if it washes away the sin of throwing one’s political support behind a gang of billionaire murderers, war criminals, profiteers whose continued records crimes and genocide goes back *centuries*. Is there even an extant political organization on this entire planet that has more blood on its hands than the Democratic Party? I doubt it. The Republicans are a few decades younger, and the modern incarnation of the Tories are as well. Every incarnation of the American government for over a century now has always been a joint coalition government for which both parties assume full responsibility for all the actions of said government.

    I think the problem is that there really isn’t an understanding of what politics even is present here Politics proper is that which relates to the state. The issue is that radical liberals have turned things into their opposite. Political support of the Democrats(voting) is relegated to an essentially apolitical sphere of life while everything that is outside politics is designated as politics. This kind of *UNpolitics* goes by various names.. “direct action”, “organizing”, protesting... any kind of action that fails to mount any challenge with the express purpose of actually *exercising* state power. At best, your conception of politics is tangential to the real issue at stake: state power.

    Organizing for what, anyway? How? On whose behalf? To what end? Rhetorical questions.

    This “organizing” is limp, impotent… false. There’s only one possible kind of organizing that could have any significance today within the American empire: the organization of the oppressed into a political body for the express purpose of exercising state power and remaking society and destroying the tyranny of capital, or that which prepares and lays the ground for it. There is no possible conception of this that could possibly be compatible with political support of the Democratic Party. As the main party of the capitalists in the United States today, it could only ever represent their interests. For the independent interests of the oppressed to be asserted, it would by necessity be in OPPOSITION TO the Democrats.

    It is not really accurate to say that what you speak of is “organizing”. A better word for it is supplication, for that is what it is. It is more like peasants groveling at the food of some medieval lord pathetically begging for scraps from the feast table. A meek request or petition which carries absolutely no ramifications for being ignored. This is the nature of radical liberal’s fanatical insistence on critical, yet unconditional political support of the Democrats. That is the charitable interpretation. I think we are better than that.

    Veteran Democrats are actually laughing at notions like this. The NYT conducted an interview with Bhaskar Sunkara, the owner of the Jacobin Magazine last year and he essentially shares your conception of things. The veteran Clintonites in the interview had only praise for this position. They approve of this toothless accommodation and lesser evilism support of the Democrats because it serves their interests and precludes the formation of truly independent opposition.

    Political independence is an all or nothing affair. Either one breaks with the Democrats and opposes them utterly, or one doesn’t and thereby precludes any independent political organization by the oppressed.

    The other possibility is that they know very well what they’re doing, and that this is a tactic to redirect dissatisfaction and potential opposition to the Democrats into flowing right back into support. It is not for no reason that Mattick claimed that Marxism would be the last refuge of the bourgeoisie. The professional activist and organizer caste is generously rewarded by their Democratic patrons for carefully shepherding any kind of nascent, spontaneous movement on the streets and ensuring that it never develops into any kind of political opposition to the Democrats, whether by channeling it into dead ends or right back into the arms of the Democrats.

    The final possibility, is that it's just naivety and that they and have never really considered these issues very thoroughly. For people who have lived through Occupy and both incarnations of BLM, I consider that a poor excuse because by this time one should certainly know better, having seen the rise and fall of Occupy, and now BLM twice over.

    The rank and file participants of Occupy and BLM have had very noble goals. The issue is that there is always the day after. This is what is so aristocratic and cancerous about this proposition of “organizing” as substitute for actual politics. Not everybody has the time, money, or even capacity to “organize”. When things get bad enough, just about anyone can be driven to the street to riot, protest, or loot. But what about the day after(or the day after that)? There are bills to pay, people to feed, and things to do. People eventually just go home, or, at least, workers do. The professional activist caste is maintained by the Democrats precisely to be on the scene 24/7 and exercise influence that cannot be countered by the ephemeral and dissipating participation of temporarily protesting or rioting workers.
    Only by bringing people together in a political organization with the express aim of exercising state power can you really have the basis for a movement in which all oppressed can be represented and have their influence and power felt without casting them aside; this would, again, necessitate complete and intransigent political opposition to the Democrats by definition.

    A radical liberal is a liberal that makes the pretense of radicalism. Radicalism in the sense of calling, on a purely formal level, for a completely new kind of society in distinction to our present one while in reality exercising critical, yet unconditional support of the left-of-center wing of the ruling class. They go by a lot of names: anarchists, democratic socialists, sometimes even communists. In reality, they would rather gouge their own eyes out rather than contemplate for a single moment ceasing their political support and withdrawing their vote from these parties like the Democrats. In practice their exercise of political support is entirely indistinguishable from the most hawkish and neoliberal Clintonite.

    They invoke contortionist and counter-intuitive mental gymnastics to justify it. In the case of anarchists, they invoke lofty, utopian principals to the effect that one cannot ever hope of exercising state power, for it’s too corrosive and corrupting! Yet, curiously, these same people are among the most intransigent defenders of voting for the Democrats. This paradox is explained exactly through this ideological mystification where politics and apolitical lifestylism are transformed into their opposites and exchange places.

    It seeks to disarm the oppressed of the only potential weapon they have to wield, state power; and redirect their discontent into political support for the Democratic Party. It is desertion, at best, and treason or sabotage at worst. These monsters couldn’t even be in power without people having voted for them. As far as they are concerned, that is all they need from you to stay in power and exercise their wretched rule of enforced homelessness, poverty, war, genocide, and the destruction of our resources, even the very air we breathe.
    In reality, if the Democrats lost their critical, yet unconditional leftist support this would probably create a crisis of legitimacy and introduce an opportunity for the organization of truly independent politics of the oppressed against the Democrats and Republicans.

    It makes sense that during Mao’s interview with Richard Nixon, the former stated that he actually liked Republicans over Democrats. I believe it must have been in the spirit of Winston Churchill’s famous statement to the effect that capitalist liberal democracy was the ‘worst system, except for all other possible alternatives’. Conservatives shovel shit in your face, but don’t pretend that it’s ever anything other than shit: “We bloodsuckers are killing you, but there is no alternative to it”. Modern Democrats and their enablers on the left, in comparison, go through an elaborate song and dance, wild contortionist mental acrobatics, to pretend that by shoveling shit in your face they are actually helping.

    As far as individuals go, politics is always their own private affair. I wouldn’t pretend otherwise. However, if one is going to be shoveling the shit of calling for a Democratic vote into one’s face, then at least do the courtesy of not pretending that it is anything else and take responsibility for that position. Democratic voters 100% are complicit in their crimes. Voting, providing them your political support, that’s a choice. A choice that they wouldn’t even be in power in the first place without.

    In the end; radical liberalism, anarchism, democratic socialism, whatever flavor of the day or guise it is assuming, amounts to little more than a form of secular Catholicism. It is the salvation of the guilty petty bourgeois soul who is burdened by their complicity that this wretched American empire continues on as it does. This conception of activism and organizing that exists harmoniously with voting and political support for the Democrats is just a purgation of one’s sins, so that they can go write on sinning and sleep soundly at night without thinking of the blood of all the countless millions of people whose lives have been cut short, destroyed, ruined, or impoverished both at home and abroad that is on their hands.

    Take responsibility for what your politics actually are, that’s all I’m saying. If you are going to join hands with the Clintonites, which is absolutely what you are doing by voting for them, then so be it. Just don’t pretend it’s something other than what it is.

    No real point in clogging up this thread with any more on it, so that’s all I’ll say on the subject here.
    Last edited by TopBrass; October 26th, 2020 at 03:20 PM.

  2. #642
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    Please make a thread in the politics and debate forum if this conversation is to continue; getting a bit windy in here for daily thoughts.

  3. #643

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    Nice guys finish last, ain't that for true. I could say the same effect applies to honesty. I got offered a promotion at the tech company I work for, after I told them I was probably going to leave the state after I graduated the offer quickly evaporated. That was dumb.
    Last edited by Koba; October 31st, 2020 at 03:48 AM.

  4. #644

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    Stuck at work, don't want to deal with these people, don't want to deal with their bullshit. My give a fuck is rapidly diminishing , that is a bad sign.
    Last edited by Koba; November 5th, 2020 at 03:10 AM.

  5. #645

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    frick

    nothing in particular, just: frick, in general

  6. #646

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    Frustrating day.
    Last edited by Koba; November 5th, 2020 at 11:06 AM.

  7. #647
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerguelen View Post
    frick

    nothing in particular, just: frick, in general
    I had to delete a ton of ancient messages to make space for new ones. Your messages should go through now! I'm sorry about that. :3

    I'm so fed up with my blood family.

    They're all evangelical Christians. Every last one. Even my brother, who thinks Covid is a hoax and refuses to wear a mask.

    My mother was listening to her preacher say: "'Children's rights', 'gay rights', it's all contributing to a godless society." When I called her out on it, she said she isn't homophobic. But when she and my father saw two lesbians kiss on Pride, my mother said "Oh that's disgusting" and my father agreed and hit Forward on the remote.

    My father wishes violent death upon refugees. "I hope their plane crashes into the sea." (My mother agreed.)

    I must have been adopted. I remember thinking that as a kid. "I must have been adopted."

    The horror of being born into the cultish true-believer flock. I can run circles around them easily. Sometimes I want to watch them run.
    Last edited by Coyote Jones; November 5th, 2020 at 08:35 PM.

  8. #648
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    The more I hear about "traditional family values" and the more wackos tout them (usually as an excuse to be shitty people), the more I realise that keeping my mouth shut on these matters is the only thing that's going to work. "Traditional family values" is kind of like HIV--once you pop, you can't stop. Once someone is infected with those ideas, it's terminal. I don't even know how to respond to those people because it comes back to the same kind of circular reasoning as with bible thumpers always coming back to "it's written in the bibble so it's true".
    A negative number was raised to a power that is not an integer.

  9. #649
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    GOD, I feel that hard. Three of my close friends I regularly talk to and play games with online all had similar bizarre religious upbringings with the "traditional values" thing. It is so unfathomable, frustrating, and gross to me. There's so many flavors of it too. My friends' families from the Catholic, Mormon, and Church of Christ sects. They're all just variations on the same bullshit to me. And I've seen the damage they've done to my friends.

    Big kudos to you, Jones, for putting up with that. I hear horror stories all the time. I have the One Weird Uncle (TM) who keeps messaging my dad and all the other siblings about hydroxychloroquine and how masks don't work and whatever, but for the most part, my family is mostly not exhausting in THAT way.

    BIG ups to you (and my friends, too, honestly), for being the black sheep anyway and rising above it.

  10. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by R Swan View Post
    I don't even know how to respond to those people because it comes back to the same kind of circular reasoning as with bible thumpers always coming back to "it's written in the bibble so it's true".
    The Bibble. I am dying. Thank you. I think I'll adopt that phrase.

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